Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Hi guys, I’ve had this 72? for a while now and have never seen another like it. I am hoping for you guys’ knowledgeable opinions on it please.
It has bone covers with nickel silver? liners. The brass rocker pin is spun. The other 2 pins are hammered and not brass but nickel silver? It has the same blade configuration as the first cataloged 72 in 1946. Half stops on both pen and coping blades, no half stop on main clip. Main clip is saber ground on both sides and is etched “UNITED”. It has a regular nail nick instead of a long pull. Mark side of main clip tang has the Sword Brand crossed swords stamp. Pile side of main clip tang is stamped “3025”. Mark side of pen tang is stamped “CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y.U.S.A. Pile side of pen tang doesn’t have a stamp. Coping has no tang stamps.
Is this a mock up parts knife, a SFO, a one off?
Would really appreciate to hear from you guys, thank you!
It has bone covers with nickel silver? liners. The brass rocker pin is spun. The other 2 pins are hammered and not brass but nickel silver? It has the same blade configuration as the first cataloged 72 in 1946. Half stops on both pen and coping blades, no half stop on main clip. Main clip is saber ground on both sides and is etched “UNITED”. It has a regular nail nick instead of a long pull. Mark side of main clip tang has the Sword Brand crossed swords stamp. Pile side of main clip tang is stamped “3025”. Mark side of pen tang is stamped “CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y.U.S.A. Pile side of pen tang doesn’t have a stamp. Coping has no tang stamps.
Is this a mock up parts knife, a SFO, a one off?
Would really appreciate to hear from you guys, thank you!
- jerryd6818
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Oh my goodness. Could this be the elusive genesis of the Camillus 72 and in "Oh my goodness condition"? I would give the pucker in my butt for that knife.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
- carrmillus
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
....I have seen that shield on some of the older split-spring whittlers, I have 2 with that shield, but they are 4 line marked!!!...... ...........
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Can't help you, but.......WOW!!
Kid: "Wish we had time to bury them fellas."
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
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Skip
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales
Skip
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Hi Jerry, could it really be?? It is in mint condition, edges are factory and unused. Thanks for sharpening up the photos!jerryd6818 wrote:Oh my goodness. Could this be the elusive genesis of the Camillus 72 and in "Oh my goodness condition"? I would give the pucker in my butt for that knife.
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
What ya goin’ do now, Marine?
Treefarmer
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A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Get the drool bucket out and just sit here for a while.treefarmer wrote:What ya goin’ do now, Marine?
Treefarmer
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Yes I’ve seen that shield on some of the older knives too but not commonly seen I believe. The same goes for the pen blade tang stamp, I haven’t seen too many of those in my meager experience with Camillus knives in general.carrmillus wrote:....I have seen that shield on some of the older split-spring whittlers, I have 2 with that shield, but they are 4 line marked!!!...... ...........
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
I watched it sell on the bay a while back. Then it showed up on BF. Wondered if it would show up over here some day. Nice knife.
David
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
I have a couple of knives with that same tang stamp but they don't have the glimp shield like the one in the OP. In fact these are both federal shield's but two different types of federal shield. This is the date of this tang stamp? CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A.
Does anyone else have examples of this tang stamp? I have no firm time frame for this tang stamp. I would think it is definitely before World War II for several reasons:
1 – We have fairly decent records of what Camillus has produced since the end of World War II.
2 – Tom Williams said the use of the word cutlery was dropped from the four-line tang stamp at the end of World War II, or thereabouts. Since Cut. is an abbreviation for the word cutlery I think that would also placed prior to World War II.
3 – We know that Camillus was pursuing alternate handle materials during and after World War II. JerryD's famous "shrinky-dink" handles were actually produced towards the end of World War II.
4 – The OP knife and the butter & molasses celluloid I posted both had four digit model numbers on one of the blades. The 1946 Camillus catalog has one and two digit model numbers. The Hawkbill pruner is model #1, but the prewar model number for the Hawkbill pruner is #1001. I have a 1001 and I asked Tom Williams about it before he passed and he told me that 1001 was the four digit prewar model number.
5 – Of the two knives I posted above I believe the butter & molasses is the oldest one judging by the shield. The black and white celluloid knife beneath the butter & molasses has the type of shield that was very popular in the 1930s. That shield is attached by tabs or prongs that push into the celluloid when it is made and are held securely to the handle by tabs at the top and the bottom of that shield that are embedded in the celluloid. I can date that I bought shield back to the Streamline Sword Brand knives which were made circa 1936 if memory serves me, (which it sometimes doesn't).
Now, if the three line CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A. weren't bad enough they also had a four-line and a five line version of that very same tang stamp!
The four and five line versions of this tang stamp I have seen were all on bartenders knives that were stamped on the tang of the blade that had a caplifter cut into that tang.
It's understandable why they might abbreviate cutlery as Cut. on such a small knife was such a narrow tang however, there is no need to abbreviate cutlery on the knife in the OP nor is there need to do so on the two knives I posted above.
At one time I sought to put all of Camillus is tang stamps in chronological order. I have a folder full of various Camillus tang stamps on my computer, some of which are rarely seen! Does anyone have any idea when the 3 line version was used? How about the 4 & 5 line versions?
I think I have given up on the chronological ordering of the Camillus tang stamps, there are too many that don't seem to be tied to any known dates!
Does anyone else have examples of this tang stamp? I have no firm time frame for this tang stamp. I would think it is definitely before World War II for several reasons:
1 – We have fairly decent records of what Camillus has produced since the end of World War II.
2 – Tom Williams said the use of the word cutlery was dropped from the four-line tang stamp at the end of World War II, or thereabouts. Since Cut. is an abbreviation for the word cutlery I think that would also placed prior to World War II.
3 – We know that Camillus was pursuing alternate handle materials during and after World War II. JerryD's famous "shrinky-dink" handles were actually produced towards the end of World War II.
4 – The OP knife and the butter & molasses celluloid I posted both had four digit model numbers on one of the blades. The 1946 Camillus catalog has one and two digit model numbers. The Hawkbill pruner is model #1, but the prewar model number for the Hawkbill pruner is #1001. I have a 1001 and I asked Tom Williams about it before he passed and he told me that 1001 was the four digit prewar model number.
5 – Of the two knives I posted above I believe the butter & molasses is the oldest one judging by the shield. The black and white celluloid knife beneath the butter & molasses has the type of shield that was very popular in the 1930s. That shield is attached by tabs or prongs that push into the celluloid when it is made and are held securely to the handle by tabs at the top and the bottom of that shield that are embedded in the celluloid. I can date that I bought shield back to the Streamline Sword Brand knives which were made circa 1936 if memory serves me, (which it sometimes doesn't).
Now, if the three line CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A. weren't bad enough they also had a four-line and a five line version of that very same tang stamp!
The four and five line versions of this tang stamp I have seen were all on bartenders knives that were stamped on the tang of the blade that had a caplifter cut into that tang.
It's understandable why they might abbreviate cutlery as Cut. on such a small knife was such a narrow tang however, there is no need to abbreviate cutlery on the knife in the OP nor is there need to do so on the two knives I posted above.
At one time I sought to put all of Camillus is tang stamps in chronological order. I have a folder full of various Camillus tang stamps on my computer, some of which are rarely seen! Does anyone have any idea when the 3 line version was used? How about the 4 & 5 line versions?
I think I have given up on the chronological ordering of the Camillus tang stamps, there are too many that don't seem to be tied to any known dates!
Dale
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"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
- carrmillus
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
........only one I have that is similar to these is an old tobacco knife that is 4 line stamped on both blades..the pick is so narrow that it's not stamped!!!............ ....................
- carrmillus
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
......I have two knives stamped with what I thought was the earliest tang stamp-one is a swell center ebonywood tuxedo knife-3 line-curved CAMILLUS with dash, dot, dash underline, 2nd line-cutlery co., 3rd line- new York-both blades are marked like this-goin's says 1902-1915........... .................
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Uh oh.... 2 - "Oh my goodnesses" in the same statement....jerryd6818 wrote:Oh my goodness. Could this be the elusive genesis of the Camillus 72 and in "Oh my goodness condition"? I would give the pucker in my butt for that knife.
This could be serious.
"Life is tough.... but it's tougher if you're stupid."....John Wayne
- jerryd6818
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Mike, it's very serious!!!Meridian_Mike wrote:Uh oh.... 2 - "Oh my goodnesses" in the same statement....jerryd6818 wrote:Oh my goodness. Could this be the elusive genesis of the Camillus 72 and in "Oh my goodness condition"? I would give the pucker in my butt for that knife.
This could be serious.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
I appreciate the nice comments guys! Dale, thanks so much for your time and all the info! Also much appreciation to the knowledgeable folks on here and to Dale and his buddies for the efforts put into archiving the history of Camillus.orvet wrote:I have a couple of knives with that same tang stamp but they don't have the glimp shield like the one in the OP. In fact these are both federal shield's but two different types of federal shield. This is the date of this tang stamp? CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A.
Does anyone else have examples of this tang stamp?
Camillus # 2513 a.jpg
Camillus # 2513 b.jpg
Camillus Cut Co Sword Brand celluloid a.jpg
Camillus Cut Co Sword Brand celluloid b.jpg
I have no firm time frame for this tang stamp. I would think it is definitely before World War II for several reasons:
1 – We have fairly decent records of what Camillus has produced since the end of World War II.
2 – Tom Williams said the use of the word cutlery was dropped from the four-line tang stamp at the end of World War II, or thereabouts. Since Cut. is an abbreviation for the word cutlery I think that would also placed prior to World War II.
3 – We know that Camillus was pursuing alternate handle materials during and after World War II. JerryD's famous "shrinky-dink" handles were actually produced towards the end of World War II.
4 – The OP knife and the butter & molasses celluloid I posted both had four digit model numbers on one of the blades. The 1946 Camillus catalog has one and two digit model numbers. The Hawkbill pruner is model #1, but the prewar model number for the Hawkbill pruner is #1001. I have a 1001 and I asked Tom Williams about it before he passed and he told me that 1001 was the four digit prewar model number.
5 – Of the two knives I posted above I believe the butter & molasses is the oldest one judging by the shield. The black and white celluloid knife beneath the butter & molasses has the type of shield that was very popular in the 1930s. That shield is attached by tabs or prongs that push into the celluloid when it is made and are held securely to the handle by tabs at the top and the bottom of that shield that are embedded in the celluloid. I can date that I bought shield back to the Streamline Sword Brand knives which were made circa 1936 if memory serves me, (which it sometimes doesn't).
Now, if the three line CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A. weren't bad enough they also had a four-line and a five line version of that very same tang stamp!
The four and five line versions of this tang stamp I have seen were all on bartenders knives that were stamped on the tang of the blade that had a caplifter cut into that tang.
Camillus Cut Co 4 line stamp from Vit.jpg
Welderbob Camillus.JPG
It's understandable why they might abbreviate cutlery as Cut. on such a small knife was such a narrow tang however, there is no need to abbreviate cutlery on the knife in the OP nor is there need to do so on the two knives I posted above.
At one time I sought to put all of Camillus is tang stamps in chronological order. I have a folder full of various Camillus tang stamps on my computer, some of which are rarely seen! Does anyone have any idea when the 3 line version was used? How about the 4 & 5 line versions?
I think I have given up on the chronological ordering of the Camillus tang stamps, there are too many that don't seem to be tied to any known dates!
So with the CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A and the 4 digit model number stamps on my knife, it’s pretty safe to say that my knife is at least as old as pre WW2 or possibly a little older I guess? It’s also safe to say that there’s definitely more to the history and roots of the 72 than what is already known, and it goes back to before 1946. I really would like to find out the time frame of when the CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y. U.S.A. was used. As it’s been said before, dating a Camillus can be a real puzzle!! There are still quite a few question marks on my knife - the regular nail nick instead of the match strike long pull on the main clip and the nickel silver?(non magnetic) hammered pins(not spun). Does anyone have or seen a 72 with hammered pins and a regular nail nick instead of a long pull? The bomb shield and nickel silver liners are also not common on 72’s I think? And that UNITED etch, what’s up with that??
If only knives could talk...
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/co ... e-shields/
I found this reference on the Camillus shields.I don't know who wrote it.
Grant
I found this reference on the Camillus shields.I don't know who wrote it.
Grant
Politicians should be like a good pocket knife ." Sharp and useful "
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Interesting, haven’t seen that before. Thanks for the link!
- ratlesnake75
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Hey Kai76, If you dont mind, I am working on the Sword Brand stamp only myself in another thread here on the Camillus forum & would like to add your stamping if that is ok with you Sir?
Thank you kindly
Mark
Thank you kindly
Mark
I Buy/Sell/Trade All Vintage Antique Pocket knives from Junkers to Mint. I am Easy going, so Please shoot me a message ANYTIME!!! l Live & Breath KNIVES Everyday.
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Oh man! Wonderful knife.
This is a “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!” situation.
This is a “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!” situation.
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
I would think it's an advertiser.Kai76 wrote: And that UNITED etch, what’s up with that??
If only knives could talk...
If only.
Am I the only one that wonders why, it the knife is pre-WWII why is it the only one we've ever seen? The 72 pattern was so popular from WWII on, wouldn't you think it would have been just as popular before the war and there would be at least a few survivors floating around. Things that make you go, HUH?
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
- carrmillus
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
....I have 2 similar to these, one is a "72", smooth brown bone handles,worked liners, 4 point oval shield,sword brand and 4 line marked on the master blade...the other is a split-spring, same bone, worked liners, 4 point oval shield,4 line marked on master only.....I have never seen others anywhere like these two????............ ..............
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Hi Mark, but of course and yes please! I’m happy to be able to contribute to your other thread on here. I’m also eager myself to learn more about Sword Brand tang stamps. Thank you for doing this!ratlesnake75 wrote:Hey Kai76, If you dont mind, I am working on the Sword Brand stamp only myself in another thread here on the Camillus forum & would like to add your stamping if that is ok with you Sir?
Thank you kindly
Mark
Nick
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
Hey Nick, Thank you Very much Sir. I didnt want to just steal your pretty pics, lol. We are like family around here brother
Kindest Regards,
Mark
Kindest Regards,
Mark
I Buy/Sell/Trade All Vintage Antique Pocket knives from Junkers to Mint. I am Easy going, so Please shoot me a message ANYTIME!!! l Live & Breath KNIVES Everyday.
Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
All good Mark! I hope the info you gather will help to find the missing pieces to the Camillus Sword Brand tang stamps mystery puzzle.
- carrmillus
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Re: Head scratcher oddball Camillus Sword Brand 72...
..don't have my goin's handy, but I think the 3 line stamp is pre WW2????............. .............Kai76 wrote:Hi guys, I’ve had this 72? for a while now and have never seen another like it. I am hoping for you guys’ knowledgeable opinions on it please.
It has bone covers with nickel silver? liners. The brass rocker pin is spun. The other 2 pins are hammered and not brass but nickel silver? It has the same blade configuration as the first cataloged 72 in 1946. Half stops on both pen and coping blades, no half stop on main clip. Main clip is saber ground on both sides and is etched “UNITED”. It has a regular nail nick instead of a long pull. Mark side of main clip tang has the Sword Brand crossed swords stamp. Pile side of main clip tang is stamped “3025”. Mark side of pen tang is stamped “CAMILLUS/CUT.CO./N.Y.U.S.A. Pile side of pen tang doesn’t have a stamp. Coping has no tang stamps.
Is this a mock up parts knife, a SFO, a one off?
Would really appreciate to hear from you guys, thank you!
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