Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy.
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desmobob
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Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Hi folks... I just signed up. I'm a Camillus fan and have some #99 utility knives and TL-29s. I have three TL-29s, one with the all-capital letters and full-length underline tang stamp and one with the forward-slanting all-capitals, fully underlined tang stamp. The two later ones have the bail pivots close to the end of the knife and older one has the pivot further in (pre-1976?).

Do the post '76 knives have the same blade steel as the pre-'76 knife? Are they all 0170-6C?

I think these knives are very handy tools. When you think about it, what do most people do with their knife that they shouldn't? I would guess: 1) use it as a screwdriver, 2) pry with the blade, and 3) scrape with the blade. The TL-29 not only has a great cutting blade, but also a long locking screwdriver blade that has a steeply-beveled scraping surface on one side to save the cutting blade from abuse. :)
Bob

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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Welcome to AAPK. There are a lot of TL-29 fans here, some who collect them, some specialize/modify or re-handle them viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63951, and some carry them. We like pictures here so post some pics of your knives. ::tu:: Sorry I can’t answer your question about what steel was used. Someone may know.

Meanwhile you might enjoy these old threads viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30184

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2659&start=405

Ken
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Mumbleypeg,

Thanks for the links!

I guess I should refer to the knives as "electrician's knives." Anyway, I always have a dual interest in older knives: history and current utility. I like to pick knives that have an interesting history but are also very practical, because I carry and use all my knives. Thus, my curiosity about the blade steel in the Camillus electrician's knives I have.

The later ones are available in excellent condition for bargain prices; that's why I have a few. If they have the same excellent blade steel as the older models, I can be satisfied with the ones I have. But if I find out there is better blade steel on older versions that I don't have, I'll have to keep hunting! :lol:

Have a happy and healthy Thanksgiving,
Bob

PS-- I'll try to get my Camillus knives together for a group photo!
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Here are the knives I have bearing the Camillus blade stamp. I have other knives I think were made by Camillus (Case camp knives, Buck stockman?). One of the electrician's knives and a little #84 were not present for the photo...

https://i.imgur.com/ppnYkT0.jpg
12082
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Nice collection of Camillus. ::tu::

Technically TL-29 knives are the military issued versions, made to MIL-SPEC TL-29. Civilian versions are “electrician’s” knives. Another common name is “radio” knife. But in practical application they’re all the same basic pattern, and the names are used interchangeably by most.

Ken
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by orvet »

Welcome to AAPK Bob!

Regarding the blade steel, 0170-6C; I have not heard of that steel before, at least not by that name. Where did you get that name for the steel? I am thinking the source of the name might help explain the name.
I will check the S-cards I have from the Camillus factory and see if the steel is specified on them. I suspect it will be 1095 steel if it is specified.
I believe most all of the TL-29 military issue were 1095 steel. In case you did not know, TL-29 was the military nomenclature for the US Army version of the knife in WW I, and was used on most subsequent versions of the military electricians knife.
As far add I am aware 1095 was the only steel used in the military TL-29's, but there may be some in stainless steel in later years.

That being said, I and some others, feel there is some difference in the steel from threw 1920s through the 1950s or 1960s. The dates are not universally agreed upon, but but the conscience is the earlier 1095 steel made a better knife blade than the later 1095 does.
I don't know that the formula has changed, but I suspect the heat treating process has changed, which I expect has effected the grain structure of the metal.

I am not an expert in metallurgy , but this is based on using electricians knives from my own collection (civilian & military), pre WW I to present day.
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Thanks for the warm welcome, Dale.

I've read about the 0170-6 and 0170-6C numerous times on another big knife forum. At least one former Camillus employee participates there, and there was another former Camillus man active on the forums who had a real wealth of Camillus knowledge, but I believe he has passed on. Some searching will show lots of posts referencing the steel.

This blade material was manufactured by Shannon Steel before they went out of business, from what I've read.

Stay healthy,
Bob
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Vit_213 »

0170-6C it is Carbon V. This steel was not used for electrician knives.
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Vit_213 »

TL-29 S-Cards 1952 & 1984
Attachments
TL-29 1952 pg 1.jpg
TL-29.jpg
desmobob
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

desmobob wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:42 pm Thanks for the warm welcome, Dale.

I've read about the 0170-6 and 0170-6C numerous times on another big knife forum. At least one former Camillus employee participates there, and there was another former Camillus man active on the forums who had a real wealth of Camillus knowledge, but I believe he has passed on. Some searching will show lots of posts referencing the steel.

This blade material was manufactured by Shannon Steel before they went out of business, from what I've read.

Stay healthy,
Bob
Tom Williams (RIP) and Phil Gibbs of Camillus were moderators of the other knife forum's Camillus section. Mr. Williams was the Camillus factory historian. Phil Gibbs, former Camillus design engineer and presently A.G. Russel product development manager is still a current contributor on other forum sections. I'm guessing they would have corrected anyone posting misinformation there.

I hadn't frequented that forum in a long time (before my interest in Camillus) and I just noticed the Camillus Collectors' Forum section there. I'll see if I can get Mr. Gibbs to respond directly to my query on blade steels used.

Bob
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Vit_213 »

Many members of this forum are also registered on the Bladeforums. We know very well who is Phil Gibbs and remember Tom Williams.
So you can feel free to post links to the BF here.
I would like to see a link to the post with the misinformation you talk about.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the ... s.1762151/
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Vit_213 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:55 am I would like to see a link to the post with the misinformation you talk about.
I wasn't singling out a post with misinformation. I had said here that I read on the other forum that Camillus used 0170-6 or 0170-6C for blade steel in at least some of the TL-29/electrician's knives. You said it was not used in those knives. orvet said he had never heard of it. If you are correct, than the posts I read on the other forum were wrong. If they were wrong, I would guess that Mr. Williams or Mr. Gibbs would have corrected them or pointed out the "misinformation."

It is very easy to search the Bladeforums archives and find numerous posts mentioning Camillus' use of 0170-6C. I was under the impression it had been used in at least some of the TL-29/electrician's knives and was curious as to which date range or ranges. I'm not here to argue with you.
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Colonel26 »

This is a quote from Blade Forum:

“Good research! 0170-6 was a 'trade-name' for that alloy. Since it was no longer made, and we have it made for us, we tweaked the recipe slightly and gave it the 'C' designation for CAMILLUS. We aren't trying to make any big deal about this, but it is a very good carbon cutlery steel. We have ALOT experience with it. We like it enough to have it made for us.

It is proprietory and I will not devulge the make-up, but believe me, there is no kryptonite or unobtanium involved [​IMG] Try it, I think you'll like it.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery”

The alloy being discussed was 50100. Which from the discussion seems to have been 1095 with some secret sauce added.

I agree with Dale. Camillus (and CASE, and Western, etc) steel back in the day always seemed much better to me than what was being used from the late 70’s to present.
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
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desmobob
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Colonel26 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:31 am This is a quote from Blade Forum:

“Good research! 0170-6 was a 'trade-name' for that alloy. Since it was no longer made, and we have it made for us, we tweaked the recipe slightly and gave it the 'C' designation for CAMILLUS. We aren't trying to make any big deal about this, but it is a very good carbon cutlery steel. We have ALOT experience with it. We like it enough to have it made for us.

It is proprietory and I will not devulge the make-up, but believe me, there is no kryptonite or unobtanium involved [​IMG] Try it, I think you'll like it.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery”

The alloy being discussed was 50100. Which from the discussion seems to have been 1095 with some secret sauce added.

I agree with Dale. Camillus (and CASE, and Western, etc) steel back in the day always seemed much better to me than what was being used from the late 70’s to present.
Thanks for the info. I wonder if it's even possible to narrow down the dates when it was used or no longer used...

Most references to it seem to lean toward the "earlier (pre-late '70s) steel was noticeably better" opinion, but I've also seen a contrary claim that there was a switch in TL-29/electrician's knives blade steel from 1095 to 0170-6C near the end of production.

In reality, for my purposes it's moot. I might use my knife once or twice or a half-dozen times during any given day... or, just as likely, not at all. Any 1095 can stand up to that! :) Like a lot of people, I've been sucked into the steel technology race. Once I had bought my first knife with a blade of ATS-34, I looked down at 1095. Then, VG-10, S30V, ZDP189, M390, and so on (and on and on).

I do value the super stainless steels, but I'm getting old enough to find more value in the sentimental appeal of an old knife that was made in my home state.

I wish it was easier to pin down a more exact date of manufacture of a knife. I have a decent collection of Coleman lanterns. They are all stamped with a month/year, so it's fun to collect different models made in the month of your birth, or gift lanterns with appropriate dates for friend's birthdays, etc. It would be great to be able to do that with knives!

Stay healthy,
Bob
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Vit_213 »

desmobob wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:11 am I had said here that I read on the other forum that Camillus used 0170-6 or 0170-6C for blade steel in at least some of the TL-29/electrician's knives.
I contacted Phil Gibbs about a question of interest to you.
Q: Has Camillus ever used 0170-6C steel for TL-29 knives?
A: I don’t think so. By the time we had 0170-6C we were making all the TL-29 blades in stainless.
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Thank you sir! I appreciate your help. ::tu::

I had sent a PM to Mr. Gibbs on the subject but haven't heard back from him yet.
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Colonel26 »

Vit_213 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:57 pm
desmobob wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:11 am I had said here that I read on the other forum that Camillus used 0170-6 or 0170-6C for blade steel in at least some of the TL-29/electrician's knives.
I contacted Phil Gibbs about a question of interest to you.
Q: Has Camillus ever used 0170-6C steel for TL-29 knives?
A: I don’t think so. By the time we had 0170-6C we were making all the TL-29 blades in stainless.
Well there ya go! Mystery solved.
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Colonel26 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:35 pm
Vit_213 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:57 pm
desmobob wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:11 am I had said here that I read on the other forum that Camillus used 0170-6 or 0170-6C for blade steel in at least some of the TL-29/electrician's knives.
I contacted Phil Gibbs about a question of interest to you.
Q: Has Camillus ever used 0170-6C steel for TL-29 knives?
A: I don’t think so. By the time we had 0170-6C we were making all the TL-29 blades in stainless.
Well there ya go! Mystery solved.
Maybe... Check out this old Amazon listing from "The Camillus Store": https://www.amazon.com/Camillus-Electri ... B01GDC33RU

Camillus TL-29 ~ These were a government issue version.
Old Stock
Made in the USA before the Camillus factory closed in 2007
Closed Length: 3 3/4" ~ Handle: Black Derlin
Blade: 2 7/8" 0170-6C carbon steel; good snap opening and closing and at half way
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Colonel26 »

Maybe, who knows? At the end of the day it’s a tweaked 1095. I’m sure it’ll be good steel.
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
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desmobob
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Colonel26 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:00 am Maybe, who knows? At the end of the day it’s a tweaked 1095. I’m sure it’ll be good steel.
1095, 0170-6C, or whatever it is, it's plenty good enough for my use!

I just fixed up another Camillus electrician's knife to give to a buddy. I think they're the perfect knife for a lot of people who would otherwise ruin a good knife by using it as a screwdriver, pry bar, scraper... the electrician's knife is able to safely perform those tasks with no risk to the cutting blade. Perfect!
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

The composition of and differences between various steels is a rat hole. I find it interesting but not sure why because invariably I don’t really understand most of it, and quite honestly haven’t found a need for anything beyond what is used in Case, Schrade, or Camillus blades. ::shrug::

Here’s a comment from one on-line source I found while researching 0170-6c:
50100-B / 0170-6C / Carbon V: main

This is one of the more common carbon steels in the cutlery industry, however it is rarely called by that name. Cold Steel calls it Carbon V, Camillus calls it 0170-6C, and Case calls it "chrome vanadium", W7 is tool steel with a similar composition.......... Overview : This steel is one of the most common production grade cutlery steels, called different names by different manufacturers. It is basically a low alloy enhancement of 1095 designed to give deeper hardening, refine the grain and as well provide slight increases to wear resistance and corrosion resistance. The performance seen in production knives was significantly varied which is common with the more inexpensive blades.
If interested, here’s the source of that quote. Scroll down to find 0170-6c. http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/review ... rials.html

Ken
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

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desmobob
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Re: Which TL-29s used the 0170-6C blade steel?

Post by desmobob »

Thanks Ken,

That's a wonderful resource and I spent plenty of time there! Bookmarked...

Stay healthy,
Bob
Bob

Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."
~Rudyard Kipling
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