1st Generation Bulldog late night find

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Gone2Three
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1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Greetings everyone, this is maybe my 3rd post here on the forum and the first on the Bulldog page....
One of my last posts was about an old A.W. Wadsworth & Son knife, the seller told me that there were several other quality collectable German knife companies to look into... this being one of them.
Anyways, I was perusing the old internet last night before going to bed and found this one that caught my eye.
As it was the only knife listed on the sellers page, I messaged her to inquire about a negotiable price. Seemed fair so I bought it... now after looking really hard to find out more about it.
I didn't have much luck and hoping our experts could help.
These are the sellers pictures, they noted the specks on the blade which I hope can be polished out. Listed as a 1983 stamped 1st edition.
Just wanted to find out what material handle, name of it (looks neat) and if someone knows how many were made of this run.
I did notice that the others being posted here had etching of sorts, but this doesn't.... is there a reason? I might have to get better pictures of tang stamp, my old eyes can't quite make out the "read" on it
Thanks once again for helping!
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herbva
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by herbva »

Beautiful knife, but I believe the handle scales, unfortunately, are celluloid. A ton has been written about the unstable nature of celluloid and the "outgassing" process. Just google "celluloid outgassing" and you can read all you want. Keep an eye on the knife and don't store it near any other knives in you collection. If the outgassing process is left to go on too long, it can destroy the knife and any others near it. Based on the pictures you posted, it may be starting on your knife (pitting on the top half of the primary blade, and in the last picture, the area of the real bolster just next to the scale). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. I have rehandled several Bulldogs and many other knives with celluloid because of this problem.
"Better to do something imperfectly, than to do nothing flawlessly." ~ Robert H. Schuller

Herb
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by olderdogs1 »

I believe if you will check the date it actually says 1993 as opposed to 1983, indicating a 3rd generation knife that Jim Parker had made. Good advice to keep it away from other knives but normally These handles are not bad to gas, but on occasion they will. Bulldog called these handles Coon Stripe and about 100 were produced.
Very well built knife.
Hope this helps.

Tom
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by deo-pa »

Perhaps the knife is seeing the onset of outgassing but in the big scheme of things, so what. It’s a quality knife and the handles sure are attractive. I might elect to carry the knife and simply enjoy the heck out of it. Even if it is self-destructing you might well get years of use and enjoyment out of it, as it’s already at least 25 years old. Sticking it in a drawer by itself to keep it away from the others in your collection seems like a miserable fate for this beauty.

Dennis
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Once again you all have come through, this information is tremendously helpful going forward. Unfortunate that's not what I wanted to hear but it is a beautiful knife.
This transaction might not happen after all anyway.
I have received word that my work has closed due to the pandemic, and we are being told to stay home for some unknown period of time. Have to prioritize my spending now...looking like I will be putting future purchases on hold temporarily.
Thank you again for the great information!
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Yikes!
Just started to think about this... how does this factor in on all the other brand names? I've got other older usa made knives that are made of the celluloid material...are they going to do the same thing eventually?
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by deo-pa »

Best guess: some might but most won’t. There are plenty of 100 year old celluloid handled knives that are (so far) perfectly stable.

Dennis
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Thank you Dennis, I've pulled the one's I own and separated them from the others. Not an expert but they look alright for now.
I have a Schrade molasses coming in the mail, but it looked pretty darn good, so it might be alright for now. Here are the others if y'all can take a look....
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herbva
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by herbva »

Gone2Three wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:16 pm Yikes!
Just started to think about this... how does this factor in on all the other brand names? I've got other older usa made knives that are made of the celluloid material...are they going to do the same thing eventually?
Like Dennis said, some seem to be perfectly stable and show no signs of decomposing after many years, but some are relatively young and start going quite suddenly. As best I can tell, it is unpredictable. There are many theories about different types and/or patterns of celluloid that are more prone to this problem and there are just as many disagreements and examples to the contrary about this. Attached are pictures of a 1993 Wnichester bullet knife, that I recently got on fleabay and, as you can see, the outgassing was starting to destroy the metal and I couldn't remove all the pitting, but was at least able to save it as a nice useable knife. I have also restored many non-celluloid knives that were damaged by their celluloid neighbors somewhere in a collection. Frequently I see the first signs as discoloration of the bolsters or pitting that appears in a line on the top half of the blade or blades that sit outside of the blade well and are unprotected.
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"Better to do something imperfectly, than to do nothing flawlessly." ~ Robert H. Schuller

Herb
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Thank you Herb for your additional feedback and pictures of your knives. I wasn't able to stop the transaction so it's in the mail and on the way to me. Technically it's not the sellers fault I'm out of work so I'm watching my $pending now....
All I can say is that I'm learning as I go and I appreciate the valuable information given to me here.
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Froe »

I also love the look of celluloid. But it's a little like loving a dog, you know you might have to give it up some day.
I'd sharpen it, carry it and just keep it away from my other knives or my pocket gun.
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Froe... ::tu::
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Tom you were correct on the date stamp, 1993 just like you said... boy your good ::tu::
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Loose Arrow

Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Loose Arrow »

Hello,
::handshake::
Gone2Three wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:34 am Greetings everyone, this is maybe my 3rd post here on the forum and the first on the Bulldog page....
One of my last posts was about an old A.W. Wadsworth & Son knife, the seller told me that there were several other quality collectable German knife companies to look into... this being one of them.
Anyways, I was perusing the old internet last night before going to bed and found this one that caught my eye.
As it was the only knife listed on the sellers page, I messaged her to inquire about a negotiable price. Seemed fair so I bought it... now after looking really hard to find out more about it.
I didn't have much luck and hoping our experts could help.
These are the sellers pictures, they noted the specks on the blade which I hope can be polished out. Listed as a 1983 stamped 1st edition.
Just wanted to find out what material handle, name of it (looks neat) and if someone knows how many were made of this run.
I did notice that the others being posted here had etching of sorts, but this doesn't.... is there a reason? I might have to get better pictures of tang stamp, my old eyes can't quite make out the "read" on it
Thanks once again for helping!
I think this is your knife, #568.

In Parker's '04 vol. 7 pocket guide BKC# 568 is a 3-1/2" Canoe pattern, Bulldog shield, no etch, High Carbon Steel blades, (it would've been stamped 'Surgical Instrument' if they were SS), Coon Stripe celluloid covers, 100 made.

*I think that there is a typo in the book for the shield because the same combination (BKC#556) except with an acorn shield comes with an etch on its main blade.

I have a few coon stripes and they definitely need to be open air, by themselves. To my little experience, this one is the worst followed by Waterfall.
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Gone2Three
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Gone2Three »

Loose Arrow wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:26 pm Hello,
::handshake::
Gone2Three wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:34 am Greetings everyone, this is maybe my 3rd post here on the forum and the first on the Bulldog page....
One of my last posts was about an old A.W. Wadsworth & Son knife, the seller told me that there were several other quality collectable German knife companies to look into... this being one of them.
Anyways, I was perusing the old internet last night before going to bed and found this one that caught my eye.
As it was the only knife listed on the sellers page, I messaged her to inquire about a negotiable price. Seemed fair so I bought it... now after looking really hard to find out more about it.
I didn't have much luck and hoping our experts could help.
These are the sellers pictures, they noted the specks on the blade which I hope can be polished out. Listed as a 1983 stamped 1st edition.
Just wanted to find out what material handle, name of it (looks neat) and if someone knows how many were made of this run.
I did notice that the others being posted here had etching of sorts, but this doesn't.... is there a reason? I might have to get better pictures of tang stamp, my old eyes can't quite make out the "read" on it
Thanks once again for helping!
I think this is your knife, #568.

In Parker's '04 vol. 7 pocket guide BKC# 568 is a 3-1/2" Canoe pattern, Bulldog shield, no etch, High Carbon Steel blades, (it would've been stamped 'Surgical Instrument' if they were SS), Coon Stripe celluloid covers, 100 made.

*I think that there is a typo in the book for the shield because the same combination (BKC#556) except with an acorn shield comes with an etch on its main blade.

I have a few coon stripes and they definitely need to be open air, by themselves. To my little experience, this one is the worst followed by Waterfall.
Well howdy... ::handshake::

You have some nice coon stripes there!
I wound up not keeping it , the buyer refunded and I was just out the shipping back to him.
It was a great looking knife, but with the size of my ever growing collection I'm just a little weary of taking a chance on the celluloid scales. ::skeptic:: however the few posted above are out in the open on my dresser. I rotate them in with my EDC's to mix it up
Loose Arrow

Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Loose Arrow »

Gone2Three wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:18 am ...

Thanks! I'm going to try to do the same. ::tu::
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog late night find

Post by Colonel26 »

In general I don't trust any of the German celluloid from the 70's - present day. The only one I haven't had problems with YET is yellow handled Eye Brands and I keep them separate.

I've been told that the black box Winchesters of the 80's-90's were real prone to outgassing too. I just got hold of a mint 1996 large congress with cell and it's on it's way for new clothes right now! I love the look of old cell knives. I just don't trust them.
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