how to know a WWII KABAR?

[Yehuda]

Christian, we're in the same boat. Congrats on your knife!! I've always wanted a WWII era KaBar as well. The historic aspect just appeals to me. Today I found what I think to be one at the local gun show. If any of you guys who know these knives see anything amiss, let me know. It looks right to me so I forked over $150 for it. The leather is dry but still in good shape. Lot of blueing still present as well.

[PACKLEAD3R]

What's your thoughts on this one? Thanks

[zzyzzogeton]

That's a legitimate Union Cutlery made WW2 1219C2 with a WW2 USN-MK2 marked sheath. It's a 1219C2 because it is marked with USMC. The USN-MK2s were there same knife, just marked USN or USN MK2.

Leather sheaths were the first sheaths issued with both the 1219C2s and the USN-MK2s. The leather sheaths made by Boyt Harness Company, like yours, are marked with BOYT and 43. Other companies made the leather sheaths. There are variations on the leather sheaths. Officially, USMC issued knives only came with leather sheaths. What a particular marine ended up with may have varied from "standard issue". Either 1219C2s or USN-MK2s could have been issued to a Marine or to a swabbie/squid.

[PACKLEAD3R]

My uncle gave it to my father after his service in the marines. My father left it for me after his passing. Thank you for the excellent information!

[PACKLEAD3R]

What's something like this worth? I'm very curious to know. Thanks again!

[PACKLEAD3R]

I forgot to share this view the other day.

[Mossdancer]

First you need to do some homework. If any are alive check with other family members Has there been a family tree established for your heritage, if not you might visit with the Utah Mormon researchers. Be wary of how you spend your money. Try to find out when, the branch and where your uncle served and start building his history. If nothing to enhance is found it is worth what it appraises at with any adders you can prove. All said and done it is worth more for its intrinsic value to you.
moss
psFor example I was at a senior luncheon when and old fellow beside start talking about his BAR that was a bring back from Normandy. He landed on DDay on the 5th or 6th wave on one of the Beaches and made it out alive which is a pretty good enhancer. He was carrying it as the squad automatic rifle. I have no further info other that his wife passed a couple of days after the lunch.
moss

[PACKLEAD3R]

I'm not looking to sell it. I was purely curious. I'm certain he didn't serve in WWll. I'm pretty sure his service was during or around the time of Korea. He just recently passed so I can't ask him where he acquired it.
Thank you just the same. That's its some excellent information to know.
JamesG

[steve99f]

I'm bookmarking this page just in case I get bitten by this particular bug. Just WOW!

[PACKLEAD3R]

I 2nd that motion!

[DanceswithGlock]

Hello everybody. Thanks to you all who have provided so much excellent info on these KA-BARs. You have already answered many Questions I had regarding the KA-BAR I have acquired this last month. I would like to post some pictures to confirm what I believe I've learned. The only Question I'm still not sure is if this is a Union cutlery or a Camillus?

[zzyzzogeton]

If it says KABAR on it, that is a Union Cutlery 1219C2/USN-MK2.

The other WW2 versions would have Camillus, PAL, or Robeson-Suredge.

[DanceswithGlock]

Thank you much for confirming that. Great forum here

[Tom47]

I recieved this Ka-bar from my father years ago. I believe he recieved it from one of his brothers who were in WWII. I have been looking at various web sites but, haven't been able to find any that describe the exact markings on this one. The only markings are those on the guard. Does anyone have any information on this particular one.

[zzyzzogeton]

That one is an early guard stamped model. When the PTB mistakenly decided that the ricasso stamping was causing blades to break, they shifted the stamps to the guard.

The first runs of Kabar 1219C2s and MK2 USN knives after the shift had what is now called "straight-line Kabar" stamps. The word KABAR is in a line and the other side only had USMC or USN. Subsequent runs all the way to the end of the war had KABAR stamped as KA over BAR and MK2 over USN. The reason for the change is unknown. It is assumed that the straight line knives were early in the guard stamp process simply because there are so few of them.

[Mossdancer]

In this case what would the rectangular tang through the pommel indicate if anything?
moss

[zzyzzogeton]

That's simply indicative of the second change order made on the 1219C2/USN-MK2 - a shift from round/threaded/welded pommel to non-threaded pommel.

The first knives delivered, by Camillus, (shipped in late January 1943 and being delivered in February 1943), followed the original specs of the 3/8" pommel being threaded onto the tang and then held in place with a split nut.

This construction method was quickly dumped, with the change being to weld/peen the pommel in place after being threaded on. The first Kabar order shipped in April 1943 with this construction method.

The next change was to change from threading the tang and pommel before welding/peening, and just stamp out the blanks with rectangular pommel tang (which they were already doing) and just put the pommel on and "zap". This eliminated the time spent rounding/threading the tang and threading the pommel. BOOM - more knives out the door in the same amount of time. Can't remember the exact date of change but IIRC, it was around July or August 1943.

This knife shows that the shift of the stamps to the guard PRECEDED the next cost reduction change - shifting from a 3/8" peened/welded pommel to a 1/4" pinned pommel. Again IIRC, the shift to guard stampings was around November or December 1943.

There are examples of both guard and ricasso stamps on knives, which would be a case of pre-stamped blades being assembled with the new pre-stamped guards. Some assembly lines would likely have run "old" unstamped guards before they ran out of stamped blades.

[Mossdancer]

Sounds as though the company whose assemblers had the longest arms enabling them to reach the bottom of the blade barrel. If they could use up the current run of blades the anomalies would not have happened. Aint hindsight great.

Thank You for the great explanations. The detail was interesting.

I just fell into the most perfect Mark One Colonial I have found yet. Black synthetic pommel with very fine knurling on each side under knob, same for guard, USN on one side with MARK I over COLONIAL on other. The bold and smaller lettering is I think all correct. I believe the USN over MK 1 with NORD -- 4728 over BM Co _ vP on back of fibre sheath With drain in bottom is original.
Just took another look at handle. It is a metal probably aluminum and painted black. Seems the handle was molded(poured) in two pieces and installed onto tang. The front and back seams are viewable. I will attempt some photos as time and weather cooperates. This is nice a top snap sheath with a belt fitting only.
moss
NOW THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS, I JUST DID SOME GOOGLE RESEARCH AND I BELIEVE THE KNIFE TO BE EITHER A REMAKE OR A REMADE HANDLE HAS BEEN APPLIED IN ANY CASE. I THINK THE SHEATH IS ORIGINAL. VERY SAD BUT NO SCHOLARSHIPS FROM THE SALE OF THIS ONE. KNIFE ALONE IS PROBABLY $40-45 BUCKS. SHEATH MAY BE MORE THAN THAT BY ITSELF.
moss (later in the evening).

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[Tom47]

Thanks for the information. I had heard talk of a straight-line ka-bar but didn't realize what that meant.

[alex1959]

Hi everybody!yesterday I picked up KA BAR knive on garage sell.till yesterday I did not know about this company and their knives.I have read a lot .looked pictures..and now a have few questions- about this one -is it real one or fake? What year it was made?The blade is different from other KABAR...Thanks in advance.Alex

[zzyzzogeton]

That's a Kabar "Commando" knife. Marketed with that name. Came with either a bright or a blued blade.

Falls into the "Hunting Knives, 6 inch" category. Supposedly available during the last year of WW2, either PX sales or a 6" hunting knife contract sale. Sold post WW2 as well.

[alex1959]

Thanks ! I am so surprised! I found already on Google.So interesting! I picked this knife on garage sale for 7.5$ And also .. what is the value of this one?Thanks .

[stearmanguy]

Hi guys can someone tell me about this one ? It has a Boyt 42 sheath I have only been able to find boyt 43 on the internet any idea of value ?

[Gunsil]

That's a Kabar "Commando" knife. Marketed with that name. Came with either a bright or a blued blade.

Falls into the "Hunting Knives, 6 inch" category. Supposedly available during the last year of WW2, either PX sales or a 6" hunting knife contract sale. Sold post WW2 as well.

Actually, the "commando" from KA-BAR came either with a fullered saber ground chrome plated blade or a flat ground parkerized blade as alex shows. Some KA-BAR MK 1s and MK2s had blued blades but not the 6" commando model.

[zzyzzogeton]

Parkerized. Yeah I knew that. I guess I had an instance of OFD or CRS.