When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

The KA-BAR brand originated as a trademark of the Tidioute Cutlery Company. Tidioute was later taken over & renamed the Union Cutlery Company which continued making the brand until Union eventually adopted it as the company name in 1952. Cutco Corporation later acquired the company in 1996.
User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:58 pm

I would guess that most of us are aware of the following information Union Razor Company, Tideoute mark used 1902-1909

Union Cutlery Co. Tideoute marked knives were only made 1898-to approx. 1912.

Union Cutlery Co. with North American outline 1912-1923

Union Cutlery Co. Olean, NY 1912 first used.

OLCUT, and Keenwell also used first in the 20's.

After 1923--KA-BAR on main blade, and Union Cutlery Co. Olean, NY on either the back of the blade if a single blade, or on one of the smaller blades. These will be referred the Union mark. If I state the Union mark it means the blade will be stamped "Union Cutlery Co. Olean, NY"

After 1952 Union Cutlery Co. is no longer marked on the knives. (Equivalent in Case Language: XX and USA)

Kabar, USA was changed to in 1951

In the 70's a pattern number was added between the Kabar and the USA.( Above info curtesy Bruce Voyles)

Now what I am trying to determine is when the first dogs head folding knives were made and under what tang stamp. I believe tidioute made a knife in which the pommel was the now recognizable dogs head however it was not the shield that is so well known ( it was a dogs head pommel ) that would have been prior to 1912. Tidioute used the North American logo ( outline of the north american continent.) However I do not know if they used that mark with the dogs head shield on early knives. This would I believe make it the earliest in this line ( if it exists). After union ( Olean NY) acquired the company they began in 1912 to produce knives with the North American outline and did so until around 1923 . While Unions with the early North American mark are rare even rarer are the folding knives that had both the North american tang and the dogs head shield in the handle. Usually these were large folding hunters with jigged bone. I have over the years found 3 examples of patterns that were made with both the dogs head shield in the handle and the North American tang. (There are many more patterns that have just the North american tang). I feel that these are the earliest versions of dogs head unions( ie KA BAR). I have included a pic of the razor display case used by union tidioute and the book with that logo written by David Anthony . Also the three patterns of knives I have found with both the shield and logo. One has a lockback bar which is tang stamped on the obverse side as Pat Oct 23 1916, The smaller ( no bottom bolster ) folding hunter is marked on the Obverse Union Cut Co Olean NY. The other knife is not marked on the obverse however may have worn off. Again the North American tang by itself is very rare being a hundred years approx old. However it would seem the dog shield patterns were fewer and rarer. My question is does any one have provinance or information on an earlier version of a dogshead shield in handle predating these examples or knowledge of any other patterns that fit this criteria. Personally until I find evidence I believe these to be the earliest versions produced of these knives Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou LT
Attachments
100_1432.JPG
100_1440.JPG
100_1441.JPG
100_1442.JPG
100_1443.JPG
100_1447.JPG

User avatar
btrwtr
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 3439
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 11:53 am

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by btrwtr » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:29 pm

As far as I know the Union with the North American outline stamps are the earliest Dog's head shield knives. Good information and history of stamps that you provided. Great examples shown. Thanks for sharing.

Here is another version dog's head with the North American outline stamp.

Wayne
Attachments
DSC05963.JPG
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

Wayne

Please visit My AAPK store https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/btrwtr

stockman
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:19 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by stockman » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:21 am

When was that N America stamp used?

Harold

User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:27 am

Dogone now I have another pattern to find. They all seem to have the same jigging I guess that would seem logical although some others with that tang had variations. . That one is a dandy.

User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:29 am

According to Voyles 1912 until 1923. Although I have heard others say as early as 1909.???????

Jacknifeben
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:06 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by Jacknifeben » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:48 am

I have this "hobo" knife tang stamped UNION CUT. CO. Olean N.Y. U.S.A on the blade and PAT. NOV. 5th 1907 on the fork. Will this help any?
Attachments
MVC-218S.JPG
MVC-219S.JPG

Jacknifeben
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:06 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by Jacknifeben » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:52 am

Forgot the dogs head.
Attachments
MVC-220S.JPG

User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:28 am

The Hobo does not help, but does the dogs head banana in the pic, have the North american outline union tang stamp? if it does It is another pattern (banana) that i had not seen with this mark . It is possible ( of course the knife is closed so I cannot tell ) however Napanoch was making the banana pattern during the approx era. So tell me what is the tang on it? It really looks in good shape. 1, I am looking for knives carrying the Union North American outline tang with the dogs head shield in the side. To determine what patterns under that marking were made during that period 2, any with the dogshead shield in the handle and a tangstamp earlier than the North american out line. I guess that would have to be some form of Tidioute. ??? That was about all that came before Olean NY

Jacknifeben
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:06 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by Jacknifeben » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 am

All of the pictures are 1 knife.
Attachments
MVC-220S.JPG

User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:58 am

I apologize I am probably doing something wrong but all I see is originally the tang pic of the hobo and one pic of a closed banana pattern dogs head. this still is the only pic I see am I doing something wrong or else please just tell me if the tang is the North American outline or something else???? if I am missing some pics or something please let me know. I am not great with computers.

User avatar
peanut740
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4854
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:32 pm
Location: Ohio, along the river
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by peanut740 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:12 am

There were a couple North American dogs head knives in Voyles auction that ended last week.1 for sure was a folding hunter, I don't remember if the other was a hunter or not.
Roger

User avatar
lt632ret
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by lt632ret » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:40 am

Yes there were a couple of north american dogs heads. In fact the small one in my picture was one of them , I believe that there were one or two others but I already had one of that model which was the one in my original pics without the locking bar, so i did not need another of the same pattern. There were more north americans in that auction than i had seen in years. I bought a little pearl and a hawkbill as well. None of the other North american tangs were dogs heads. It is the combination of the tang and shield and being the first dogheads that intrigues me. I mean if you collect dogsheads you want them all and these have to be among the most difficult to find. Especially if they are the first which I believe until shown different they are.

Jacknifeben
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:06 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by Jacknifeben » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:15 pm

My dogs head does not have the North American out line, Sorry for the confusion.

User avatar
1967redrider
Silver Tier
Silver Tier
Posts: 3972
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA
Contact:

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by 1967redrider » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:52 pm

I have never seen The Union "North America" tang stamp before and great history lesson, thanks for sharing. I'm interested in learning and an answer to this question but can provide no answers.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

stockman
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:19 pm

Re: When were the earliest dogs head foldersmade?

Post by stockman » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:07 pm

stockman wrote:When was that N America stamp used?

Harold
Thanks, lt went back and read your post my answer was in the first few lines. Great info.

Harold

Post Reply

Return to “KA-BAR Knife Collector's Forum”