All About Pocket Knives

Hi everyone. This is my first time putting a message on this forum. I realize this is someone else's thread but I was wondering if I post some pics of a knife, could you guys identify it?

I just bought it off ebay thinking it's from WW2, definitely hoping it is. It as the Olean, NY and ka-bar marks, along with USMC. It also has an old leather sheath with boyt 43 and usmc on it. I have the ebay pics now, but can take greater detailed one in two days when it arrives at my doorstep. Hopefully that's okay, let me know if I can post them.

Christian3309 wrote:Hi everyone. This is my first time putting a message on this forum. I realize this is someone else's thread but I was wondering if I post some pics of a knife, could you guys identify it?

I just bought it off ebay thinking it's from WW2, definitely hoping it is. It as the Olean, NY and ka-bar marks, along with USMC. It also has an old leather sheath with boyt 43 and usmc on it. I have the ebay pics now, but can take greater detailed one in two days when it arrives at my doorstep. Hopefully that's okay, let me know if I can post them.

Welcome to AAPK! Post pictures here or start a new thread - up to you.

Ken

Thanks for the warm welcome! I'll post the pictures I have from ebay (knife still has another day or two before it gets to my house), but I can post higher quality pics one I snag it up. I really hope I did enough research to get a legit knife made in wartime. Thanks everyone for your time!

As you have read I am susceptible to being wrong. It does appear to me as being a correct Marine KA-BAR. With the screw on pommel the indications are that it is an early one. The sheath looks correct to me. We shall see if I am full of it or not this time. Whether it is 100% or not you still have a knife that is highly desirable. Good catch.
moss

Yes, it is a WW2 Kabar 1219C2. Thin font on USMC stamp, Thick (3/8") peened on pommel. Leather sheath is correct.

Its an early version, probably 2nd or 3rd production run. First run had red spacers. 2nd run and later had black spacers. Later versions had a rectangular peened tang on the pommel end.

While some Marines may have had the USN-MK2 fiberglass sheaths by trade, snitch, or purchase from a sailor, but officially, 1219C2s only had leather sheaths. Marine Supply Centers only ordered leather sheaths.

That does NOT mean the USMC marked 1219C2s were only issued to Marines or that USN-MK2s were only issued to sailors. All knives and all sheaths went into the Navy supply system FFT to Navy or Marine supply CENTERS.

Marine centers would order XXX knives and XXX leather sheaths. Navy supply centers would order XXX knives and XXX fiberglass sheaths. The Navy Supply DEPOTS would ship XXX knives and requested sheaths to the ordering Center.

The Depot personnel didn't give 2 rats' behinds as to what the knives were that they shipped. Whether they were stamped to be 1219Cs or USN-MK2s, the Navy considered them the same knives. When the Depots received the knives, all cases of knives were stacked together. Marine Supply Centers might receive USMC marked knives or USN-MK2 marked knives or both. Ditto for Navy Supply Centers.

That means while not "officially" correct by some "purists" attitudes, a 1219C2 in a fiberglass sheath or a USN-MK2 in a leather sheath, and vice versa, is still correct. Especially since the USN-MK2s were issued with leather sheaths from the initial USN-MK2 shipment by Camillus in January 1943 until the fiberglass sheaths started being produced in November 1943.

Amazing. Thank you both so much for the welcome and for the information. How does one acquire so much knowledge about this stuff? I am beginning to love ww2 history more and more ever since I watched 'the Pacific' on HBO, and Band of brothers? Have you guys seen these mini-series?

Also, I haven't received the knife yet to know exactly it's condition, but should I try to clean it up any? I especially want to look over the sheath to see it's condition, but I don't want to do anything to harm it nor the knife. Thanks again for the info, I loved reading about it and for the assistance, I'm glad it's a legit ww2 knife. It was about $160 off ebay after shipping.

Christian3309 wrote: Also, I haven't received the knife yet to know exactly it's condition, but should I try to clean it up any? I especially want to look over the sheath to see it's condition, but I don't want to do anything to harm it nor the knife.

Now you've really opened a can of worms! I'll let the military knives experts comment on the advisability of cleaning your specific knife and its sheath. Otherwise here is a link to a thread compiling links to topics about cleaning knives including how to do it, what to use, etc. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45848&p=600780&hili ... ng#p600780. Enjoy!

Ken

My opinion only, if anything is on the knife that will cause further damage. By all means gently arrest the problem. Apply a light coating of some type of preservative thin oil etc. on all the metal. I happen to like some of the new synthetic sprays use what you like and want. Do likewise with all the leather using good products. If this is your first WW2 treasure either build yourself or have it done a display shadow or light box(if you go this way make sure no heat reaches any of the leather). Look at touch it and enjoy it until the time arrives when it is moved to the back of the collection. You have done good Pilgrim.
Don't ever let BS get in the way of your dreams.
moss
PS: If the thong appears original do not take it off. Once again IMO.

Thanks for the link, Ken! I'll definitely be checking it out. It seems like there are many cans of worms to be opened regarding ww2 collectables, ironically enough!



Moss, this is indeed my first WW2 knife! I'm constantly looking at the UPS tracking # because I can't wait to receive it. I spent many hours researching; I have a feeling this knife will hold a special place in my heart even if I continue to collect them simply because this is my first one, but we shall see. Thanks for info. I'm glad to be apart of the gang.

So I just got my Kabar! I'm so excited.. First one ever. I do have a question though. The sheath looks like it says boyt 43, but I remember reading somewhere that there's supposed to be 9 rivets on the back of the sheath and those that have 6 or 7 are newer. It looks like this only has 7, but perhaps they're just worn out. Can you guys still check to make sure the sheath is also legitimate? Thank you. I will attach some others pictures too, just out of excitement of course.


EDIT:

Sorry, I was too hasty. Upon further inspection I think I see the other two at the top, they just aren't green anymore. I'll still leave the pictures up just in case, or for entertainment. Thanks everyone. Feel welcome to post yours too, I love looking at them.

Christian, we're in the same boat. Congrats on your knife!! I've always wanted a WWII era KaBar as well. The historic aspect just appeals to me. Today I found what I think to be one at the local gun show. If any of you guys who know these knives see anything amiss, let me know. It looks right to me so I forked over $150 for it. The leather is dry but still in good shape. Lot of blueing still present as well.

What's your thoughts on this one? Thanks

That's a legitimate Union Cutlery made WW2 1219C2 with a WW2 USN-MK2 marked sheath. It's a 1219C2 because it is marked with USMC. The USN-MK2s were there same knife, just marked USN or USN MK2.

Leather sheaths were the first sheaths issued with both the 1219C2s and the USN-MK2s. The leather sheaths made by Boyt Harness Company, like yours, are marked with BOYT and 43. Other companies made the leather sheaths. There are variations on the leather sheaths. Officially, USMC issued knives only came with leather sheaths. What a particular marine ended up with may have varied from "standard issue". Either 1219C2s or USN-MK2s could have been issued to a Marine or to a swabbie/squid.

My uncle gave it to my father after his service in the marines. My father left it for me after his passing. Thank you for the excellent information!

What's something like this worth? I'm very curious to know. Thanks again!

I forgot to share this view the other day.

First you need to do some homework. If any are alive check with other family members Has there been a family tree established for your heritage, if not you might visit with the Utah Mormon researchers. Be wary of how you spend your money. Try to find out when, the branch and where your uncle served and start building his history. If nothing to enhance is found it is worth what it appraises at with any adders you can prove. All said and done it is worth more for its intrinsic value to you.
moss
psFor example I was at a senior luncheon when and old fellow beside start talking about his BAR that was a bring back from Normandy. He landed on DDay on the 5th or 6th wave on one of the Beaches and made it out alive which is a pretty good enhancer. He was carrying it as the squad automatic rifle. I have no further info other that his wife passed a couple of days after the lunch.
moss

I'm not looking to sell it. I was purely curious. I'm certain he didn't serve in WWll. I'm pretty sure his service was during or around the time of Korea. He just recently passed so I can't ask him where he acquired it.
Thank you just the same. That's its some excellent information to know.
JamesG

I'm bookmarking this page just in case I get bitten by this particular bug. Just WOW!

I 2nd that motion!

Hello everybody. Thanks to you all who have provided so much excellent info on these KA-BARs. You have already answered many Questions I had regarding the KA-BAR I have acquired this last month. I would like to post some pictures to confirm what I believe I've learned. The only Question I'm still not sure is if this is a Union cutlery or a Camillus?

If it says KABAR on it, that is a Union Cutlery 1219C2/USN-MK2.

The other WW2 versions would have Camillus, PAL, or Robeson-Suredge.

Thank you much for confirming that. Great forum here

I recieved this Ka-bar from my father years ago. I believe he recieved it from one of his brothers who were in WWII. I have been looking at various web sites but, haven't been able to find any that describe the exact markings on this one. The only markings are those on the guard. Does anyone have any information on this particular one.

That one is an early guard stamped model. When the PTB mistakenly decided that the ricasso stamping was causing blades to break, they shifted the stamps to the guard.

The first runs of Kabar 1219C2s and MK2 USN knives after the shift had what is now called "straight-line Kabar" stamps. The word KABAR is in a line and the other side only had USMC or USN. Subsequent runs all the way to the end of the war had KABAR stamped as KA over BAR and MK2 over USN. The reason for the change is unknown. It is assumed that the straight line knives were early in the guard stamp process simply because there are so few of them.