A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

The KA-BAR brand originated as a trademark of the Tidioute Cutlery Company. Tidioute was later taken over & renamed the Union Cutlery Company which continued making the brand until Union eventually adopted it as the company name in 1952. Cutco Corporation later acquired the company in 1996.
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Ridgegrass
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A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

A large 4-1/4" Trapper, a 3-3/4" lemon celluloid Fishtail, a 3-3/4" candy stripe Doctor, a 4-3/8" Black composite swing-guard, (LL.Bean stamped.KABAR?
I have quite a few KABAR swing guards and this one is an exact dimensional match. ???), a 2-7/8" green bone Doctor, and the Grand daddy of them all, a 2-3/8" genuine tortoise Brown Brothers pen. Tang stamp is parallel to the blade.
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Ridgegrass
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

I bought this old "Tiger Oak" church bulletin case in Annapolis about 20 years ago. It makes a great home for the KABAR's. Old wavy glass makes it hard to photograph without reflections. Darn pics came up turned 90 degrees left! Sorry. The knives should be horizontal. The top one is hard to see. It's the Brown Brothers tortoise pen.
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clockman
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by clockman »

Hi, Ridgegrass, Nice KABARS! I like em too.The older the better and stag , best wishes, Randy
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tongueriver
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by tongueriver »

When I clicked on the files they show up correctly oriented. That's a great case for great knives!
Gunsil
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Gunsil »

Nice bunch of KA-BARs! The swing guard LL Bean is definitely a contract knife by KA-BAR, late 1940s and was also available with bone scales. There is a problem with the large trapper though, KA-BAR never made a dog head trapper like that. Nor did they mark both blades with KA-BAR. Third knife down, center row doesn't look good either. Lots of counterfeits out there. Dog head swing guard is a KCC knife made by Queen, KA-BAR/Union Cut Co never made that model with a dog head shield.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

Thanks, Aware of the repro swing guard.Bought it as such. It's a beauty though. Tell me more about the Trapper.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

What do you know about the cracked ice Viking below the Chopper? It's a dead ringer for the Olcut at the bottom.
Thanks J.O'.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Gunsil »

Many, but not all Viking marked knives were made by Union Cut Co, yours is definitely one of them. The third knife down center row dog head and the dog head trapper are not correct, Union/KABAR never made either model. You already showed us the Union Cut marked knife with the funky jigging (4th knife down center row) which is also a counterfeit. There are a finite amount of original dog head models and neither of the two I mention are among them. I see these sell on ebay, sometimes they bring good money, but sadly they are not real KA-BARs. You gotta buy from reputable sellers or study knives more to avoid purchasing such knives. Better photos would be nice.
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Ridgegrass
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

Thanks. Luckily I paid very little for the Trapper and the "Banana". One at a clock shop and the other at a flea market before cell phone access to the internet. I always suspected the banana but the Trapper is kind of a bummer. It's extremely well made. Just can't see why people produce such fakes expending their energy and talents when they could produce quality customs of their own. Just "tuition" at the school of knife collecting I guess.
Forty years of collecting, gotta miss once in a while.. Thanks again. J.O'.

Still think the Doghead bolster is a "lunch box". Really well made.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Gunsil »

Some folks will disagree with me, but "lunchbox knife" is a fantasy created by somebody selling a knife that just isn't quite right or maybe even a long way from right. For one thing, back in the day most folks were pretty honest and using company parts and facilities for one's own use is stealing. Most guys (and women) working in these old factories were related and jobs were scarce so why risk your job and respect for a silly knife? Another thing is that these factories were not full of people who could actually make a knife from start to finish. There were grinders, forgers, hafters, polishers, die stampers, etc, and most did the same job for years. A guy grinding blades for twenty years would not have skills to assemble a knife. Even at the Case factory today there are only a few people who have worked at every work station and have performed every aspect of making a knife and would actually be able to assemble a pocket knife and have it work properly.

Regarding the one you don't wish to admit is a counterfeit. The bone is not Union Cut jigged bone, it appears to be hand jigged with a dremel tool, factories had handles already assembled if somebody wanted to steal a set. The blade has no top grinds like a real Union Cut blade would have, not a blade that could or would be taken by an employee to make a knife. The lack of top grinds (swedges to some) is a sure sign of modern fakery, you will see this aspect on many modern counterfeit knives including all those made by Parker back in the 1980s. I don't have every Union Cut catalog, only the one reprinted by the KCC, but it does not have any frames like yours shown. Sorry to say, it is just another bad knife that never had anything to do with the factory. Since Union made no knives with engraved bolsters where did somebody who worked there get the skills to do such an engraving, it isn't easy. Of course better pics of the bolster would help determine if the dog is engraved, stamped, or cast in. Take those fakes out of the nice case with the real collectible Union Cut knives in it, they make the real ones uncomfortable..

Yes, we all learn from buying a bad knife here and there, but if one sticks to a certain company like KA-BAR it is not too hard to learn all the attributes of the original knives made by them. Studying old knives closely will hone one's ID skills, learning the bone jigging types used by different companies is important and so is learning blade grinds and blade stampings. Acquiring and studying old catalogs helps immensely.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

Thanks. One small point: Wasn't Queen City started by "lunch box" makers from Schatt and Morgan? J.O'.
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

The more I look at that trapper, I agree it's a repro for a couple reasons. The steel is just the wrong shade. I never denied it, just wasn't sure. It's a darn well made piece.
Are there any old catalog reprints around. I'd like to get one. Thanks
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Pile Driver »

Good to see this subforum alive, nice knives. Gene "Gunsil" can attest I've been fooled by a similar dog head trapper before as well.

I'll have to get a group shot of my collection now, you've inspired me. I like this cabinet, did you have to modify it for knives?
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Ridgegrass
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Re: A few KA BAR's and one ancestor

Post by Ridgegrass »

Didn't want to mess up the original backboard so I stained a piece of plywood to take the knife mounts. The cabinet is beautifully quarter-sawn oak inside and out.Perfect for knives. Thanks, J.O'.
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