What's wrong with the knives made in China?

A place to discuss & share pictures of knives made in China.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

marinaio61 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:06 pmI appreciate all the raving reviews of RR knives but, being a realist, I can only go on what I have personally experienced. Granted I am basing my opinion of RR on a single knife; that knife was, is and will be my only RR purchase
Which model was it and what was wrong? Did you buy it from a seller that would take a return? I hope you sent it back. You don't get quality by accepting mediocrity.

I know what you mean about holding grudges based on one knife. I got a Case knife that was impossible to open without using the folding paper trick. WAY too tight. I gave Case a second try and ended up with a knife that was OK, but it had spring gaps across half the length of the back springs. I'll give Case another couple of shots I suppose, but it is hard to forget the two anomalies that ended up in my hands. Especially when they cost considerably more than a typical Rough Ryder that has none of these problems.
bestgear wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:41 pmBut please don't try to convince me that a $10 knife is going to provide the same whatever as a $115 knife because in my world, you almost always get what you pay for and rarely (if ever) get that much more than you paid!
That is true when it comes to the kinds of steel or fancy handle materials like stag, but not when it comes to functionality as a tool. I have expensive knives and cheap ones, and there are ten dollar knives that are much more functional than the expensive ones.

My interest in pocket knives is as tools. I'm interested in the history of how they were designed and used, and the way the form followed function. I appreciate good solid workmanship and companies that "build a better mousetrap". I don't collect so much because it's the brand and model I had when I was a kid. I started off that way, but my interests have evolved beyond that. I know people see Buck 110s with turquoise, coral and mother of pearl inlays and they think they are looking at the most beautiful thing on Earth. But I appreciate the practicality for purpose of stock ebony handles. I'm not big on bling. I'm the same way with steels. I see people going on at length about the difference between one kind of super steel and another. They make a difference of one or two numbers on the Rockwell scale out to be a life and death thing. I just want a knife that takes a good edge, holds it a while and is easy to sharpen again. The steels in the middle suit my purposes a lot better than the space program ones. I can appreciate Japanese chef's knives. They are beautifully designed for a specific purpose, they generally have VG10 steel, and they aren't cheap. But do I think that they are better for carving the Thanksgiving turkey than a $10 Old Hickory or Chicago Cutlery knife with a carbon steel blade? Nope. I have both of those kinds of knives in my kitchen and I use them both.

There are always bargains on the market... undervalued and underpriced. You just have to be able to discern them. I have a lot of hobbies, and there's brand loyalty in all of them that blinds people to actual quality. Nikon is a longtime great camera manufacturer. But are their cameras the best deal today? Nope. People buy Lodge cast iron skillets because of the history of the brand, but there are no name ones at home stores that are better made and cost much less. Audiophiles buy four thousand dollar amps that are beautiful and weigh a ton, but they don't amplify sound any better for human ears than a $150 receiver from Amazon. People pay a lot of money for Wustof and Shun kitchen knives, but they are quite overpriced compared to their competition. That is where reviews come in handy. I love browsing the traditional pocket knife channels at youtube. They alert me to fantastic deals on well made knives. And we all know what brand dominates their discussion. It isn't Case or Buck.
zed6309 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:18 pmthe way I look at it is that some people want to collect but cant afford a Rolex so are happy with there Timex
You have to admit, when it comes to doing the job, a $5 import digital watch will keep time more accurately than either of them!

You don't always get more if you pay more. Sometimes you get more bling. Sometimes you get a brand name. Sometimes you get prestige. But you don't always get a better product.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by zed6309 »

zed6309 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:18 pmthe way I look at it is that some people want to collect but cant afford a Rolex so are happy with there Timex
You have to admit, when it comes to doing the job, a $5 import digital watch will keep time more accurately than either of them!

You don't always get more if you pay more. Sometimes you get more bling. Sometimes you get a brand name. Sometimes you get prestige. But you don't always get a better product.
[/quote]

Exactly, I've wore Casio Gshocks since the 80's as there affordable, reliable, can take a beating so last ::tu::
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by marinaio61 »

bigshot, the knife in question was a Rough Rider Canoe High Carbon RR1571 with G10 scales.
There were daylight gaps between springs and liners - the springs bowed outward toward the ends, the scales were so badly fit they had sharp edges protruding at each bolster - could actually cut me if I got careless, they were so thin they curled outward just after the pins, the blades were off toward each outer liner (not unusual in a multi blade), on the plus side the blades were well ground and sharp.

I threw it in my toolbox for those ugly tasks; used it to breakdown half a dozen cardboard boxes after which it needed sharpening! When I went to buy I couldn't get one from SMKW, out of stock as usual, so I bought from a third party via Amazon. Contacted SMKW mainly to let them know there were issues, really had no intention to send such a cheap knife back but received no response, gave up after three tries. The knife is at our rural residence seven hours away and unavailable for pictures.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

marinaio61 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:08 am bigshot, the knife in question was a Rough Rider Canoe High Carbon RR1571 with G10 scales. When I went to buy I couldn't get one from SMKW, out of stock as usual, so I bought from a third party via Amazon.
Ah! That explains it. A lot of the stuff sold by third party sellers at Amazon are factory seconds. When knives are returned, they're sold for cheap on eBay as is. I bet some unscrupulous person bought a really bad one for pennies on eBay and turned it around for sale at Amazon as brand new. SMKW probably won't stand behind stuff sold by non-authorized sellers. If you had bought it from them or directly from Amazon Prime, you could have returned it no problem. You probably could have gotten a refund from the third party seller if you had contacted Amazon, but you would have had to pay return shipping.

Rough Ryder has a Classic Carbon II series now that is very good. Better steel than the original Classic Carbon ones. They have T10 carbon steel blades and black micarta handles now. I bet one of those would make you a lot happier.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by marinaio61 »

bigshot wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 am
marinaio61 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:08 am bigshot, the knife in question was a Rough Rider Canoe High Carbon RR1571 with G10 scales. When I went to buy I couldn't get one from SMKW, out of stock as usual, so I bought from a third party via Amazon.
Ah! That explains it. A lot of the stuff sold by third party sellers at Amazon are factory seconds. When knives are returned, they're sold for cheap on eBay as is. I bet some unscrupulous person bought a really bad one for pennies on eBay and turned it around for sale at Amazon as brand new. SMKW probably won't stand behind stuff sold by non-authorized sellers. If you had bought it from them or directly from Amazon Prime, you could have returned it no problem. You probably could have gotten a refund from the third party seller if you had contacted Amazon, but you would have had to pay return shipping.

Rough Ryder has a Classic Carbon II series now that is very good. Better steel than the original Classic Carbon ones. They have T10 carbon steel blades and black micarta handles now. I bet one of those would make you a lot happier.
Actually the third party company has a very good reputation, nothing there to have caused me worry but I missed their return window, hence the attempt to contact SMKW. I have a Buck Canoe which is also made in China that has no obvious defects so I'll just stick with it rather than risk another RR fiasco. Fool me once....etc.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

I avoid buying from third party sellers on Amazon myself. The return policy is completely different than if you buy it from Amazon directly, and it takes forever to be reimbursed. I've been scammed twice by third party sellers. Amazon eventually made good, but it took weeks and too much back and forth to make it right. The return window on regular Amazon purchases is 30 days, which is plenty of time to get it back to them. They will send UPS to my house to pick it up and pay for the return postage. And I can get right on text chat with them without having to wait days for a seller to reply to an email.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by cudgee »

bigshot wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:14 pm
marinaio61 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:06 pmI appreciate all the raving reviews of RR knives but, being a realist, I can only go on what I have personally experienced. Granted I am basing my opinion of RR on a single knife; that knife was, is and will be my only RR purchase
Which model was it and what was wrong? Did you buy it from a seller that would take a return? I hope you sent it back. You don't get quality by accepting mediocrity.

I know what you mean about holding grudges based on one knife. I got a Case knife that was impossible to open without using the folding paper trick. WAY too tight. I gave Case a second try and ended up with a knife that was OK, but it had spring gaps across half the length of the back springs. I'll give Case another couple of shots I suppose, but it is hard to forget the two anomalies that ended up in my hands. Especially when they cost considerably more than a typical Rough Ryder that has none of these problems.
bestgear wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:41 pmBut please don't try to convince me that a $10 knife is going to provide the same whatever as a $115 knife because in my world, you almost always get what you pay for and rarely (if ever) get that much more than you paid!
That is true when it comes to the kinds of steel or fancy handle materials like stag, but not when it comes to functionality as a tool. I have expensive knives and cheap ones, and there are ten dollar knives that are much more functional than the expensive ones.

My interest in pocket knives is as tools. I'm interested in the history of how they were designed and used, and the way the form followed function. I appreciate good solid workmanship and companies that "build a better mousetrap". I don't collect so much because it's the brand and model I had when I was a kid. I started off that way, but my interests have evolved beyond that. I know people see Buck 110s with turquoise, coral and mother of pearl inlays and they think they are looking at the most beautiful thing on Earth. But I appreciate the practicality for purpose of stock ebony handles. I'm not big on bling. I'm the same way with steels. I see people going on at length about the difference between one kind of super steel and another. They make a difference of one or two numbers on the Rockwell scale out to be a life and death thing. I just want a knife that takes a good edge, holds it a while and is easy to sharpen again. The steels in the middle suit my purposes a lot better than the space program ones. I can appreciate Japanese chef's knives. They are beautifully designed for a specific purpose, they generally have VG10 steel, and they aren't cheap. But do I think that they are better for carving the Thanksgiving turkey than a $10 Old Hickory or Chicago Cutlery knife with a carbon steel blade? Nope. I have both of those kinds of knives in my kitchen and I use them both.

There are always bargains on the market... undervalued and underpriced. You just have to be able to discern them. I have a lot of hobbies, and there's brand loyalty in all of them that blinds people to actual quality. Nikon is a longtime great camera manufacturer. But are their cameras the best deal today? Nope. People buy Lodge cast iron skillets because of the history of the brand, but there are no name ones at home stores that are better made and cost much less. Audiophiles buy four thousand dollar amps that are beautiful and weigh a ton, but they don't amplify sound any better for human ears than a $150 receiver from Amazon. People pay a lot of money for Wustof and Shun kitchen knives, but they are quite overpriced compared to their competition. That is where reviews come in handy. I love browsing the traditional pocket knife channels at youtube. They alert me to fantastic deals on well made knives. And we all know what brand dominates their discussion. It isn't Case or Buck.
zed6309 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:18 pmthe way I look at it is that some people want to collect but cant afford a Rolex so are happy with there Timex
You have to admit, when it comes to doing the job, a $5 import digital watch will keep time more accurately than either of them!

You don't always get more if you pay more. Sometimes you get more bling. Sometimes you get a brand name. Sometimes you get prestige. But you don't always get a better product.
Sorry my friend i'm going to have to pull you up with one of your statements on a subject i know plenty about. You state that " there are no name ones at home stores that are better made and cost much less " in regards to Lodge and made in China cast iron skillets. Absolute rubbish, for a start if you think that Lodge products are expensive you have no idea how much you can pay for Cast Iron cookware, Lodge are the best value cast iron pans on the market-full stop. The made in China ones cost not much less than Lodge, most will warp over time and none of them season the same way as well made ones where you get the smooth non-stick finish over time with use. I have been using cast iron for over half a century from America, England, Australia and China, and the Chinese ones are rubbish and just don't stack up with much better quality ones, that is just fact. You have a good day.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

OK... I will give you a tip! At Bed Bath and Beyond they have cast iron by Artisanal Kitchen. They have sales and coupons on them all the time. I have a current Lodge and an Artisanal Kitchen skillet and the AK one is much better. The casting is quite smooth, more like old time cast iron. AK makes a double sided griddle that is smoother and fits my stove better than the Lodge one. Neither of these brands are like old school vintage pans. But the AK ones are darn close. I've never had problems with warping on any of my cast iron. That is a problem with thinner carbon steel pans.

I have a 12 qt Camp Chef dutch oven that I use with my BBQ. It's larger than Lodge's biggest, it's heavy duty to stand up to a fire, and it costs $30 less.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by edge213 »

I must ask this question. Are you actually a member of the CCP posting from Beijing?
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by marinaio61 »

bigshot wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:34 am I avoid buying from third party sellers on Amazon myself. The return policy is completely different than if you buy it from Amazon directly, and it takes forever to be reimbursed. I've been scammed twice by third party sellers. Amazon eventually made good, but it took weeks and too much back and forth to make it right. The return window on regular Amazon purchases is 30 days, which is plenty of time to get it back to them. They will send UPS to my house to pick it up and pay for the return postage. And I can get right on text chat with them without having to wait days for a seller to reply to an email.
This is the first time I've been handed shoddy goods by a third party dealer on Amazon and it's possible the dealer didn't know, simply shipped what was on the shelf. I'm also at fault for not inspecting the knife thoroughly on receipt.

I wonder how many AAPK members sell through Amazon, are they all untrustworthy? I may be naive in my old age but I still trust that most people don't get up in the morning wondering who they can scam that day.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by cudgee »

bigshot wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:50 pm OK... I will give you a tip! At Bed Bath and Beyond they have cast iron by Artisanal Kitchen. They have sales and coupons on them all the time. I have a current Lodge and an Artisanal Kitchen skillet and the AK one is much better. The casting is quite smooth, more like old time cast iron. AK makes a double sided griddle that is smoother and fits my stove better than the Lodge one. Neither of these brands are like old school vintage pans. But the AK ones are darn close. I've never had problems with warping on any of my cast iron. That is a problem with thinner carbon steel pans.

I have a 12 qt Camp Chef dutch oven that I use with my BBQ. It's larger than Lodge's biggest, it's heavy duty to stand up to a fire, and it costs $30 less.
" That is a problem with thinner carbon steel pans ". Yes it is, but my friend Cast Iron will also warp.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

There is no qualification to sell on Amazon as a third party. I'm not saying everyone there is bad, but there are scammers there. You should be aware of that.

I've never run across a cast iron pan that warped. I have Lodge, Artisinal Kitchen, Camp Chef, Le Cruesette, Misen and a set of antique hammered Chicago Hardware Foundry. They all perform like champs. In carbon steel I have Matfer Bourgeat, Mauviel and DeBuyer. None of those have warped. My Revereware aren't warped either. The only things I've had that warped were my non stick pans. They're all gone now. I think I've heard that electric stoves are more apt to warp pans than gas.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by cudgee »

bigshot wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:43 am There is no qualification to sell on Amazon as a third party. I'm not saying everyone there is bad, but there are scammers there. You should be aware of that.

I've never run across a cast iron pan that warped. I have Lodge, Artisinal Kitchen, Camp Chef, Le Cruesette, Misen and a set of antique hammered Chicago Hardware Foundry. They all perform like champs. In carbon steel I have Matfer Bourgeat, Mauviel and DeBuyer. None of those have warped. My Revereware aren't warped either. The only things I've had that warped were my non stick pans. They're all gone now. I think I've heard that electric stoves are more apt to warp pans than gas.
You obviously have a more experience in these matters than i do. I'll stand corrected and learn from your experience.
bigshot

Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

Post by bigshot »

edge213 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:54 pmI must ask this question. Are you actually a member of the CCP posting from Beijing?
I think questioning my nationality or patriotism just because I buy a $10 knife is out of line. Consider this a shot across the bow. "You shall reap just what you sow."
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?

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It's time for me to remind everyone that this is the friendliest knife forum on the web and we intend to keep it that way. Flame wars are not going to be tolerated here. As my grandma used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. I'm going to lock this thread to allow a little cool down before things get worse. Play nice people.
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