What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
I would prefer to buy American but sometimes it's just not in the cards for me. I can't afford $100 plus knives anymore and I don't mind using or abusing a $20 knife. Love those Ganzo knives.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
It depends on the brands you select. I have found Rough Rider knives to have consistently decent quality. One of our members, Delta Boy, has a lot of experience with RR and is very satisfied with them. I only have a few China Schrades which have certainly been satisfactory as using knives. There are probably others. I have found Kissing Cranes uneven in their quality control. Sometimes good, sometimes not; but certainly useable.
Some members object to buying any knife from China, often due to the nature of the China (mainland) government. I won't go into that here. We have forums for political discussions and controversial subjects. I still buy American when possible, but the reduced funds that come with retirement sometimes leads me consider a China made knife. I suggest you buy whatever works for you. Good hunting.
Some members object to buying any knife from China, often due to the nature of the China (mainland) government. I won't go into that here. We have forums for political discussions and controversial subjects. I still buy American when possible, but the reduced funds that come with retirement sometimes leads me consider a China made knife. I suggest you buy whatever works for you. Good hunting.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
What's wrong with the knives made in China? The answer is, they're made in China!
Why send American dollars to communist China? You can buy a perfectly good used Camillus, Imperial, Ulster, and other American made knives on eBay for about the same or less. From an American entrepreneur. Saying you can't afford an American-made knife is no excuse IMHO. I just won't do it. Period.
Ken
Why send American dollars to communist China? You can buy a perfectly good used Camillus, Imperial, Ulster, and other American made knives on eBay for about the same or less. From an American entrepreneur. Saying you can't afford an American-made knife is no excuse IMHO. I just won't do it. Period.
Ken
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
It is far more complicated than just us sending money to China. Most of those brand names are owned by US investors who employ US citizens to then sell the knives. Some of the money pays for manufacturing in China yes, but a good portion of the end money comes back to the US brand owners. Never forget that the move to offshore manufacturing was precipitated in the first place by US industrialists looking to increase their bottom line. China didn't steal those manufacturing jobs from us, we, (US industrialists), simply handed it to them on a silver platter, job security for fellow US citizens be damned. Leave it to the big wigs to screw the US worker to increase their profit margin.
I occasionally buy a Chinese knife when I need a sacrificial lamb that I can use and abuse, or to give as a gift to someone who could care less whether it's a good knife, but ALL my personal EDC's are US-made.
I occasionally buy a Chinese knife when I need a sacrificial lamb that I can use and abuse, or to give as a gift to someone who could care less whether it's a good knife, but ALL my personal EDC's are US-made.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Maybe. But it's also a lot more complicated than just "US industrialists looking to increase their bottom line." Most of those "US industrialists" were just trying to keep a bottom line in the black, faced with unreasonable unions, greedy statist taxes, oppressive government overreach, a litigious society overrun with lawyers, and so on. Let's get what we want and blame it on "the man", "job security for US citizens be damned." There's plenty of blame to go around.Baykeeper wrote:Never forget that the move to offshore manufacturing was precipitated in the first place by US industrialists looking to increase their bottom line. China didn't steal those manufacturing jobs from us, we, (US industrialists), simply handed it to them on a silver platter, job security for fellow US citizens be damned. Leave it to the big wigs to screw the US worker to increase their profit margin.
I won't go on as there's a separate forum for such debate. It's your money, spend it however you want.
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Personally, I just can't stand looking at the tang which is usually laser engraved "China". Its getting tougher and tougher these days, but I really just like to buy American whenever I can. I have owned them, but now, I don't think I own a single Chinese made knife ...
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
John
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
....my sentiments, exactly!!!......... ...................Lansky1 wrote:Personally, I just can't stand looking at the tang which is usually laser engraved "China". Its getting tougher and tougher these days, but I really just like to buy American whenever I can. I have owned them, but now, I don't think I own a single Chinese made knife ...
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
I have to agree also I firmly believe we shouldn't even be trading with china at all
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
As I have stated before (somewhere on aapk, I can't remember lol) China has filled the void that the American knife makers abandoned !They didn't push the US makers out of the market, or under cut them, they simply stepped into an already established market. Granted there are chinese companies making knock offs which have no place in our market, or my argument. There are decent chinese companies making high quality knives, some under their own brand, and some under US company brands.
I look at guitars as a reference. There are asian companies making Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, etc.... models farmed out by those companies. They used to be a joke. But now a lot of those asian built guitars aren't too far from they're US counterparts.Some are complete crap too, BUT there are certain manufacturing plants that consistently build very nice guitars. And in a blind, side by side test, it's hard to tell if your playing an American Strat, or the Indonesian Squire version. (granted both guitars have been setup properly, and frets leveled and dressed)
I lay this all at the US manufacturers feet. They need to make those knives they farm out HERE, and sell them at a price point competitive to the market, and we would gladly buy them. As it is now, they are making $$$ flooding the collector market with homegrown knives, and farming out the budget market. I find it hard to believe they cannot build the same knife here, and be competitive.
Maybe, they don't want to. Why sell a $45 budget knife made in USA, when you can sell a collectors quality, numbered, low production run knife for $150 ++ ?
I look at guitars as a reference. There are asian companies making Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, etc.... models farmed out by those companies. They used to be a joke. But now a lot of those asian built guitars aren't too far from they're US counterparts.Some are complete crap too, BUT there are certain manufacturing plants that consistently build very nice guitars. And in a blind, side by side test, it's hard to tell if your playing an American Strat, or the Indonesian Squire version. (granted both guitars have been setup properly, and frets leveled and dressed)
I lay this all at the US manufacturers feet. They need to make those knives they farm out HERE, and sell them at a price point competitive to the market, and we would gladly buy them. As it is now, they are making $$$ flooding the collector market with homegrown knives, and farming out the budget market. I find it hard to believe they cannot build the same knife here, and be competitive.
Maybe, they don't want to. Why sell a $45 budget knife made in USA, when you can sell a collectors quality, numbered, low production run knife for $150 ++ ?
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
Bruce Lee
Bruce Lee
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Agree on the guitar analogy - I have a Chinese made Ibanez AS73 that I'd like to buy the guy who built it a beer ... it plays better than the Gibson ES-335 I cut my teeth on (prefer the Gibson beefier neck though) - build quality is stellar.Toejammer wrote:As I have stated before (somewhere on aapk, I can't remember lol) China has filled the void that the American knife makers abandoned !They didn't push the US makers out of the market, or under cut them, they simply stepped into an already established market. Granted there are chinese companies making knock offs which have no place in our market, or my argument. There are decent chinese companies making high quality knives, some under their own brand, and some under US company brands.
I look at guitars as a reference. There are asian companies making Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, etc.... models farmed out by those companies. They used to be a joke. But now a lot of those asian built guitars aren't too far from they're US counterparts.Some are complete crap too, BUT there are certain manufacturing plants that consistently build very nice guitars. And in a blind, side by side test, it's hard to tell if your playing an American Strat, or the Indonesian Squire version. (granted both guitars have been setup properly, and frets leveled and dressed)
I lay this all at the US manufacturers feet. They need to make those knives they farm out HERE, and sell them at a price point competitive to the market, and we would gladly buy them. As it is now, they are making $$$ flooding the collector market with homegrown knives, and farming out the budget market. I find it hard to believe they cannot build the same knife here, and be competitive.
Maybe, they don't want to. Why sell a $45 budget knife made in USA, when you can sell a collectors quality, numbered, low production run knife for $150 ++ ?
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Baykeeper,Baykeeper wrote:It is far more complicated than just us sending money to China. Most of those brand names are owned by US investors who employ US citizens to then sell the knives. Some of the money pays for manufacturing in China yes, but a good portion of the end money comes back to the US brand owners. Never forget that the move to offshore manufacturing was precipitated in the first place by US industrialists looking to increase their bottom line. China didn't steal those manufacturing jobs from us, we, (US industrialists), simply handed it to them on a silver platter, job security for fellow US citizens be damned. Leave it to the big wigs to screw the US worker to increase their profit margin.
I occasionally buy a Chinese knife when I need a sacrificial lamb that I can use and abuse, or to give as a gift to someone who could care less whether it's a good knife, but ALL my personal EDC's are US-made.
You bring up a very good point. In addition, if you're just talking about quality it all boils down to if it is coming from a reputable manufacturer that is controlling the quality or some piece of junk. I have to admit that I don't own any China made knives but I am also a flashlight collector and I do own some Flashlights from a specific manufacturer. I will tell you that some of the Chinese companies like Fenix make a great product very comparable to Surefire flashlights which I also own quite a few of. It basically comes down to economics for some people because there are a lot of people out there that can't afford to spend $100 or more on a good knife. So now some of the good name brands have a cheaper option for those people that want a pretty good quality knife and don't care where it's made. I think for most of us here at AAPK it's all about the history of the U.S. made knives we collect and the storied history of the industry as a whole. Any country can make a good quality product but as always there has to be the desire and resources for good raw materials. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
BUY AMERICAN OR STARVE ! I TAKE PRIDE IN GIVING AN AMERICAN A JOB !
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
onearm, do you shop at Walmart ? Sam Walton started in small town in Arkansas and became the biggest retailer in USA.
kj
kj
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
It is said that when Sam started Walmart it was selling U.S made products. He grew to become one of the largest retailers by selling American made products. It was after Sam died in his son took over the company that Walmart became known for selling cheap imported merchandise.
Perhaps someone who lives in the Bentonville Arkansas Area will know this with more certainty. But I have read before that Sam became so successful by selling American made products.
Perhaps someone who lives in the Bentonville Arkansas Area will know this with more certainty. But I have read before that Sam became so successful by selling American made products.
Dale
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Mr. Walton died in 1992. I think WalMart came to Canada after that time.
kj
kj
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
My limited experience with Chinese-made knives is that the quality varies from knife to knife, leading me to believe that the primary problem is a lack of worker pride.
Think about it. If you buy a knife made in the U.S., Germany or Italy, the folks who made them take pride in their work. Or that's the feeling that I get from inspecting those knifes.
The fit and finish generally is much higher. In China, it seems that the goal is to meet the production quota and not to produce the highest quality product possible.
That might work well for DVD players and Canon cameras, but if you want high quality workmanship, you generally aren't going to get it from an assembly line in China. At least, not yet.
Think about it. If you buy a knife made in the U.S., Germany or Italy, the folks who made them take pride in their work. Or that's the feeling that I get from inspecting those knifes.
The fit and finish generally is much higher. In China, it seems that the goal is to meet the production quota and not to produce the highest quality product possible.
That might work well for DVD players and Canon cameras, but if you want high quality workmanship, you generally aren't going to get it from an assembly line in China. At least, not yet.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
melek wrote:My limited experience with Chinese-made knives is that the quality varies from knife to knife, leading me to believe that the primary problem is a lack of worker pride.
Think about it. If you buy a knife made in the U.S., Germany or Italy, the folks who made them take pride in their work. Or that's the feeling that I get from inspecting those knifes.
The fit and finish generally is much higher. In China, it seems that the goal is to meet the production quota and not to produce the highest quality product possible.
That might work well for DVD players and Canon cameras, but if you want high quality workmanship, you generally aren't going to get it from an assembly line in China. At least, not yet.
I would suggest you check out some of the China made knives offered by A.G. Russell. The quality is amazing and the pride of workmanship is obvious.
Phil
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
I agree, Phil and I think anyone that has owned an A.G. Russell knife would agree as well.
I'm pretty selective about knives made in China but if it's an A.G. Russell I actually prefer his China models for the quality to value ratio. One cannot help but be impressed by the build quality. As if that were not enough, most of his China knives incorporate a striker pin to prevent blade rap and his lockbacks often use a coil spring.
They are marvels of engineering and the fit & finish is the kind of fit & finish that all of us knife knuts long for in a pocket knife. Can't say enough good things about them.
I'm pretty selective about knives made in China but if it's an A.G. Russell I actually prefer his China models for the quality to value ratio. One cannot help but be impressed by the build quality. As if that were not enough, most of his China knives incorporate a striker pin to prevent blade rap and his lockbacks often use a coil spring.
They are marvels of engineering and the fit & finish is the kind of fit & finish that all of us knife knuts long for in a pocket knife. Can't say enough good things about them.
Rick T.
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"My knife money maketh itself wings!" mb>
Proud member of the Buck Collectors Club Inc.
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
The one noticeable thing is that the RR blades are easier to sharpen as compared to Case SS steel. Meaning the RR blades are softer - it’s fairly easy to sense this when sharpening on a guided rod system.
I have no experience with RR knives edge holding ability, so I’ll refrain ... but I’m fairly confident their steel is softer than Case SS - that is my only frame of reference
I have no experience with RR knives edge holding ability, so I’ll refrain ... but I’m fairly confident their steel is softer than Case SS - that is my only frame of reference
pffffft that's not a knife ......... now THAT'S a knife !! Crocodile Dundee
John
John
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Ganzo does a good job! Maybe they penalize the employees if they aren't consistent.melek wrote:My limited experience with Chinese-made knives is that the quality varies from knife to knife, leading me to believe that the primary problem is a lack of worker pride.
Think about it. If you buy a knife made in the U.S., Germany or Italy, the folks who made them take pride in their work. Or that's the feeling that I get from inspecting those knifes.
The fit and finish generally is much higher. In China, it seems that the goal is to meet the production quota and not to produce the highest quality product possible.
That might work well for DVD players and Canon cameras, but if you want high quality workmanship, you generally aren't going to get it from an assembly line in China. At least, not yet.
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
IMO the general issue would be quality of blade steel and more importantly, heat treat. No matter what the steel is, if it's not tempered right...
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
TazmanTom18 wrote:IMO the general issue would be quality of blade steel and more importantly, heat treat. No matter what the steel is,or where it's made, if it's not tempered right...
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
There are many different brand names on knives coming from China. The 2 i know best are Rough Rider for traditional style folding knives and SanRenMu for tactical style knives. Both these brands are very inexpensive: sub $10 until a few years ago and now still under $20.
Both these brands always have sharp edges on arrival and they edge hold for much longer than you are likely used to. The other aspect that amazes me is quality control. I have bought hundreds of these knives on line and have never had even one with a significant issue.
I believe the reason for the always sharp edges, always 'right-on' assembly and low prices is: Robots. The Chinese factories are modern with CNC and robotics doing the cutting, polishing and likely assembly.
kj
Both these brands always have sharp edges on arrival and they edge hold for much longer than you are likely used to. The other aspect that amazes me is quality control. I have bought hundreds of these knives on line and have never had even one with a significant issue.
I believe the reason for the always sharp edges, always 'right-on' assembly and low prices is: Robots. The Chinese factories are modern with CNC and robotics doing the cutting, polishing and likely assembly.
kj
Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
I bought another Ganzo M707 as a gift for a friend of mine. She carries it as a "get off me" knife and isn't afraid to use it to free herself from an aggressor. If she uses it and it is locked up in a police evidence room, we'll get her another. She's happy with it. If she can quickly stab/slice her way out of a confrontation. it will have served its purpose.
It is cheap "life insurance".
It is cheap "life insurance".
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Re: What's wrong with the knives made in China?
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.Captain O wrote:I bought another Ganzo M707 as a gift for a friend of mine. She carries it as a "get off me" knife and isn't afraid to use it to free herself from an aggressor. If she uses it and it is locked up in a police evidence room, we'll get her another. She's happy with it. If she can quickly stab/slice her way out of a confrontation. it will have served its purpose.
It is cheap "life insurance".
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