The future of knives

Whether we like them or loath them, Chinese manufactured knives have found their way into collections of all sorts across the entire globe. The intent of this forum is to offer a place where AAPK members can discuss the knives and not the politics.
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OSCAR
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The future of knives

Postby OSCAR » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Like it or not, it won't take much longer before China is the ONLY producer of quality knives at a decent price. I know.... I prefer American made knives. BUT the world is changing for good or bad. The reason most American knife manufacturers are out of business is the inability to compete with cheap labor. Who is left? Buck (not all the put their name on are USA made), Case, GEC (outrageously priced). Camillus, Schrade, Queen, etc. have closed their doors. SO, if you hate Chinese made knives, give up knife collecting or win the lottery...
P.S, I hate that it has come to this but.... can't do anything to change it.
The most useless thing ever is a dull knife.

kennedy knives
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Re: The future of knives

Postby kennedy knives » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:33 pm

Buy American ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::

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Re: The future of knives

Postby Sharpnshinyknives » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:44 pm

Once the new regulations concerning shipping from countries like China goes into effect, I think that some of the advantage the Chinese have will disappear. Right now we the tax payers are subsidizing shipping and mailing costs from China on knives. That’s why an EBay seller in China can sell a 5 dollar knife and ship it for free. This will soon end, fortunately, and then maybe American companies can compete a little more fairly. No American company or individual can sell something at that price, ship it for free and make money, that’s a losing situation and we simply cannot compete against.
SSk (Mark)
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Re: The future of knives

Postby TripleF » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:46 pm

OSCAR wrote:Like it or not, it won't take much longer before China is the ONLY producer of quality knives at a decent price. I know.... I prefer American made knives. BUT the world is changing for good or bad. The reason most American knife manufacturers are out of business is the inability to compete with cheap labor. Who is left? Buck (not all the put their name on are USA made), Case, GEC (outrageously priced). Camillus, Schrade, Queen, etc. have closed their doors. SO, if you hate Chinese made knives, give up knife collecting or win the lottery...
P.S, I hate that it has come to this but.... can't do anything to change it.


There's still UTICA whch makes sold knives....I've reviewed a few.
Also BEAR & Son, Ka-Bar, etc.

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FRJ
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Re: The future of knives

Postby FRJ » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:59 pm

There are still a lot of antique American knife collections that are for sale from time to time.
Joe

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Re: The future of knives

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm

kennedy knives wrote:Buy American ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::


Here, here!!!!

I’d rather save my money and buy one quality American made knife instead of several made in China. Or buy an “experienced” made in U.S.A. knife from a pawn shop, flea market or eBay seller. Lots of bargains to be had for the same or less than a new China-made knife. And none of my money goes to the communist Chinese government. :x

Those collecting Chinese knives are of course free to spend their money as they wish, and self-rationalize it however they want. IMHO in 30+ years they will have a nice collection of Chinese junk knives. (Yes I know some are not technically “junk”, the quality is becoming wonderful, and on, and on.) When I say junk here, I’m talking about value.

JMO.

Ken
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Re: The future of knives

Postby tongueriver » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:15 pm

X2.

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Re: The future of knives

Postby tongueriver » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:37 pm

I can't speak to what kind of knives the OP is interested in, nor his budget, but there are millions of knives (and great ones) out there that have not been manufactured in the last ten years, from all over the world, not just China, and this will be true for many years yet. One really major change is the inexorable move away from traditional patterns. But as demand for them falls, the prices will fall as well. They are still very hot, driven largely by GEC, which is an interesting anomaly. Even so, we tend to forget how tiny the market for traditional knives is. 90 something% of folk don't want anything more than a cheap Chinese flipper, regardless of origin or price.

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Re: The future of knives

Postby OSCAR » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:25 pm

True. Chinese knives probably won’t appreciate. I buy quality ones for me and not to resell. I also buy some new and used quality American knives. I collect Queen, some Case and Bucks as well as older Schaefer USA. But it’s hard to deny the quality of Rough Rider. And I also have many Chinese made AG Russell knives that are as finely made as any.
I also buy German made as well as Spanish made. To my way of thinking, collections are more interesting when they are more varied.
The most useless thing ever is a dull knife.

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Re: The future of knives

Postby OLDE CUTLER » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:24 pm

OSCAR wrote:Like it or not, it won't take much longer before China is the ONLY producer of quality knives at a decent price. I know.... I prefer American made knives. BUT the world is changing for good or bad. The reason most American knife manufacturers are out of business is the inability to compete with cheap labor. Who is left? Buck (not all the put their name on are USA made), Case, GEC (outrageously priced). Camillus, Schrade, Queen, etc. have closed their doors. SO, if you hate Chinese made knives, give up knife collecting or win the lottery...
P.S, I hate that it has come to this but.... can't do anything to change it.


The part of your statement that I find interesting is that you think GEC knives are outrageously priced, which tells me that you will not pay a highly skilled American craftsman to make your knife, but would pay a Chinese worker considerably less to make you a knife. This is the attitude that caused the American companies to go out of business in the first place. They had a choice of staying in the US and making their products, or moving overseas. Once the first company moved overseas, all competitors had to or they would be at a big disadvantage. It is the same old supply and demand that is the basis of capitalism. Consumers demanded a cheaper product and once it was supplied by an imported product, the American companies could not compete. American consumers are in most cases not very smart, almost all buy things SOLELY based on price alone without any regard to quality or how long a product will last.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"

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OSCAR
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Re: The future of knives

Postby OSCAR » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:54 pm

OLDE CUTLER:
I will spend for American made knives.. I have QUEEN, BUCK AND CASE as well as others.. I just cant justify 200 to 300 dollars on one knife.
Is their quality so much better than Queen, Schlatt and Morgan etc as to command that high a price? I do spend to support American workers when its feasible. I wish I won the lottery so I could buy an unlimited number of GEC but thats not the case. I am on a budget. I have never seen a GEC in person. Are they really worth what they ask?
The most useless thing ever is a dull knife.

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Re: The future of knives

Postby Quick Steel » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:03 pm

OLDE CUTLER wrote: GEC (outrageously priced)


I have only a few GEC and while they are often excessively high on the secondary market, I don't think they are overpriced initially, PROVIDING
two conditions obtain. 1. That there are sufficient willing buyers available for GEC to remain profitable. 2. That the company employees are being paid a decent wage.

I have often wished that the few American companies still making traditional pocket knives would expand their marketing and publicity efforts. Case probably does this best. But budgetary issues may prevent this.
"Life is good if you don't weaken." AG Russell

OLDE CUTLER
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Re: The future of knives

Postby OLDE CUTLER » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:34 pm

OSCAR wrote:OLDE CUTLER:
I will spend for American made knives.. I have QUEEN, BUCK AND CASE as well as others.. I just cant justify 200 to 300 dollars on one knife.
Is their quality so much better than Queen, Schlatt and Morgan etc as to command that high a price? I do spend to support American workers when its feasible. I wish I won the lottery so I could buy an unlimited number of GEC but thats not the case. I am on a budget. I have never seen a GEC in person. Are they really worth what they ask?


I only have one GEC knife, I wanted to see what they are like after reading so many posts about them here on AAPK. You are exaggerating greatly to say they are $200-300. The Bull Moose I have was around $120 a few months ago. I don't know that I will ever have a lot of GEC, but they are in my opinion very high quality and worth the money. I have mostly old American knives so I can't comment on the other brands you mentioned. And as other posters have mentioned would you rather have $120 worth of Chinese made knives (many), or one GEC. Everyone pays their money and makes their choice. You missed my point though, which was that back in the later half of the 20th century, people were making the same statement you made, "the American made products are outrageously priced, I wish they would do something about it". And they did. And that has led to the situation today with only a few American manufacturers left.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"

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Re: The future of knives

Postby OSCAR » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:31 am

Thanks for the replies. Now I will get GEC as many have commented they’re worth the price.
I don’t think I can afford many though. Most of the high end American knives I bought back in the sixties and seventies. I still get a few time to time. Now, I get vintage or NOS American knives, flea market finds etc.
It’s a shame most USA cutlery firms are gone. But it’s more complex reasons that caused it. It’s not just the USA either.
Most remaining companies here are producing overseas. Some of Buck”s line is Asian. So are Ontario, Kabar etc.
Many European cutlery firms are going overseas also. Puma is using German steel, assembled in China. On AG Russell site, they posted the reason that many of their offerings are produced in Asia. They still offer USA as well as European knives as well.
It’s a shame but the market has changed so much we, And European companies will probably never return to the way things were. I’ll try GEC, but I just (like many others) cannot afford a steady supply to feed this addictive habit of knife collecting.
The most useless thing ever is a dull knife.

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Re: The future of knives

Postby cudgee » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:43 am

This is just a fact, not a comment, finding all the posts on this thread really informative and interesting reading. I have just purchased my first GEC knife and there is no doubting the quality, but for me to purchase one they have to be something i really desire. The cost of them is very expensive over here, by the time you convert the dollar into our currency with the cost of the knife and shipping they are over $200 and upwards. I am a retired pensioner so these costs restrict very much what i can afford. Even if you have to purchase through pay pal, they charge a % fee for converting the currency. So these are just my thoughts on what are actual facts about purchasing over here, and not any commentary on the politics of the manufacturing of knives.


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