Great Knives-Little Money

[New_Windsor_NY]

I am posting here instead of the Chinese Knife forum to get a wider readership.

This was not at all what i had in mind when i started this thread. It has become an excuse to bash China. Join a political debate forum where your thoughts can be scrutinized by those with political knowledge and experience. I wanted to discuss knives.
kj

kj

Hindsight being 20/20, maybe you should have posted this in the Chinese Knife forum, where you would've had a smaller readership.

[Mumbleypeg]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

[Ivoryman]

Chatting about knives is what it is, that might involve the market, politics, economy, cost, quality, preferences and the free flow of ideas and opinions is what makes this place what it is. What's wrong with that? Tangents happen. When you open your mouth and speak or write it, you don't get to choose what others will say in response or where they will go with it. I support everyone's right to say and comment whatever they want. Thought that was understood.

[Colonel26]

This was not at all what i had in mind when i started this thread. It has become an excuse to bash China. Join a political debate forum where your thoughts can be scrutinized by those with political knowledge and experience. I wanted to discuss knives.
kj

Fortunately this isn’t that other knife site. The free flow of ideas and conversation has been a cherished tradition here at aapk for as long as I’ve been here, and I suspect much longer.

But since we’re being monitored I’ll forgo my main reason for not owning a RR. The other reason is that I’ve never handled one that appealed to me. They don’t feel like quality in the hand to me. I don’t like the cheap stainless, I don’t like the jigging, they feel to me like a cheap gas station pocket knife. As a matter of fact the only thing I do like about them is that they make some discontinued patterns other makers have dropped.

Maybe I’ve just never seen a good one. I don’t know. But there are too many fine old HOK’s to be fooling with a RR. YMMV.

[Colonel26]

Oops! Looks like I-man has the same thought I did but was faster.

[Railsplitter]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

That one made me chuckle a little, Ken. I own a few Chinese knives and although your comments have a touch of humor in them, it's also a very good point and one that I'm inclined to agree with.

I never looked at it that way but now that you mentioned it, I would not want to die with a Chinese knife in my pocket either if I'm being honest.

[WillyCamaro]

You know somethin funny. I agree with everyone 100%. Love hate relationship with Rough Riders myself. Think they are tremendous knives for the price, but absolutely hate that they are made in China. That's why I stick to Imperials. In a matter of fact, I am sick and tired of buying stuff from China. For the last few years I've been trying to find stuff made anywhere but there. Getting lucky at it. Spend a little more, get better products anyway. Taiwan has come leaps and bounds these last few years. Now if RR were made in Taiwan that would change my outlook. I also notice many products have come back to USA/Canada. Thinking of hand/power tools off top of my head. Also bike parts and guitars for that matter. I notice many people thinking the same thing as me. China's economy is grinding to a halt, even before changes in USA relations. JMTB

[Lansky1]

I'm with Dale on most levels. I'm a post '70 Case guy almost exclusively - fact that they are USA made is a big part of why. I (fortunately) never had Chinese made lead shot at me, but if I did, I would absolutely share his sentiments. I have a couple GEC's but have a hard time justifying their cost because I use everything I have - don't collect knives (those I luckily managed to get for stupidly good deals) ... plus the last 2 GEC's I bought new (and sold at a loss) had really weak snap, which is totally unacceptable to me at that price point.

I do have one RR - I wanted to try their muskrat & work it up with the ratcliffe treatment. Must admit, it's got really nice snap and fit and finish exceeds expectations for a $15 knife. I haven't used it hard - but I did notice as I've sharpened so many Case SS knives on the lansky, the RR steel just felt softer on the stone - it was perceptible. It's probably just one of my quirks, but aside from the made in USA thing, the main reason I am not crazy about RR knives is the match striker nail nick - really dislike that feature & they insist on using it 99.9% of the time...

[Ivoryman]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

That one made me chuckle a little, Ken. I own a few Chinese knives and although your comments have a touch of humor in them, it's also a very good point and one that I'm inclined to agree with.

I never looked at it that way but now that you mentioned it, I would not want to die with a Chinese knife in my pocket either if I'm being honest.

Damn straight, nailed it both of you, couldn't agree more.

[espn77]

Ken's reason is pretty close to the same reason as why I dont buy them. When i die someone is going to have to get rid of all this stuff. My family sees all the time and enjoyment i get from knife collecting and I'd hate for them to have to try to sell them and realize that they are only worth $10 a piece. It won't even be worth there time to sell them. But if the knives have some real value they might actually see the value in them and develop a desire for them after I'm gone. Those are my reasonings. I think they will be surprised at what some of them might bring and think I'm not as crazy as they thought time will tell.

[kootenay joe]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

[Mumbleypeg]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

You have my deepest sympathy.

Ken

[orvet]

Roland when I answered you in that topic I thought you really wanted to know why people are not as excited about Rough Rider knives as you are. Instead you throw a fit and PM me wanting me to lock the topic because you didn’t get the answers you wanted??!

Now because I didn’t lock it down when you wanted me to you post an incredibly insensitive, malicious and highly inflammatory post. A post that would in any other knife forum I know of get you immediately banned from that forum. This is a classic example of trolling.

Give me one good reason why I should not band you right now.

[espn77]

That's the most bazaar post I've ever read on here.

[XX Case XX]

I'm pretty sure there is a "Sticky Topic" somewhere here that asks that none of us interject politics with knife discussions.

I'm not taking sides here, but I always thought this was a place where we could discuss knives without all the politics that sometimes goes with it. I myself have been guilty of that from time to time.

I certainly hope that cooler heads prevail and we can all continue to have these discussions in Peace.

___________
Mike

[colin.p]

Well after reading this somewhat sad/laughable thread, I can only say one thing: "If I could find RR knives up here, I'd buy one just for spite and piss off an American". I'll have to buy more Kizer, We, Reate, Civivi, Bestech, Artisan...

Oh and I'm glad GEC "put Queen out of business" and put another nail in Case's coffin (I'm actually definitely not glad and I hate to see knife companies put out of business), but some here may just love to see that hate mongering company from Oregon City closed down too?

Really guys, just relax and go and play another round of COD and get all that angst out of your system Oh, and other than a couple Chinese Buck knives and a Kizer, oh and a Grohmann too, all my other knives are from good ol' USA. I hope you don't mind.

[Dinadan]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

This post, and the whole thread, is a great example of why the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives forum exists. I like Rough Riders myself, but when I post reviews or comments about RR I do it in the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives forum. That way folks who do not want to see anything about China knives can ignore it.

And our culture may be self centered, but it is strange that most of the rest of the world seems to consume our entertainment, our sports, our technology, and dream of coming here.

[WillyCamaro]

1/2 hour writing up post and gone!

Basically went on long rant about freedom, free markets, bad governments, name calling, ect.
I think you said it Mike. We are all allowed to have personal opinions/say anything about anything, but you step over the line when you attack someone personally. Too much of that going on out-there nowadays.
I think it might be a wise decision to move this one over to the China Knives thread, or not.
Me, i'm sticking to Queen/Schatt & Morgan/Imperial and that'll leave more RR for the guys that want to buy em'.
Keep calm and carry on, I say!

[orvet]

I agree, it is time to move this topic to the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives where it should've been posted to begin with.


TOPIC MOVED

[edge213]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

Now I see why you were banned from BF. Because of your hatred for America.
I thought you being a "doctor" you would have to be more educated than you seem to be.
If not for the U.S. there would be no free world. I don't think Canada had the balls or the military to keep the world from Nazi or Communist take over, so for you to bad mouth the U.S. as you do is pathetic.
I use a small tablet to use this forum so long responses are not going to happen.
I would love for you to PM me and I will give you my phone number so we could discuss this further.

[WillyCamaro]

You are very close Edge. I wouldn't say, Canada didn't have the balls. We raised over 1,000,000 solders out of 15,000,000 people during WWII, fought on all fronts, and served with distinction on all fronts. But you are right about not big enough military. If it has not been for the USA most of the free countries today would still be in the dark ages, ruled by tyrannical people. Like Dave Ramsey likes to say, "America may have it's problems, but baby, we've got it made! You can do any thing you want to do (within reason)".
I have to apologize for us Canadians guys! I don't feel that way in the least about America. I say God bless America and Canada! No matter how tough things may seem, we live in the best countries, at the best time in history, the world has ever seen!
Mom is right. We Canadian's are really pitiful, all full of our selves. I ask Roland and Colin, what has a America ever done to you?
That was not good Roland, still blaming Nam on ordinary people, that had no control over crooked politicians (who are to blame for it going so terribly wrong). Everyone suffered from it, no winners, everyone lost.
And trying to equivocate the US to China goes to far. The USA is a free people. China is a brutal dictatorship that rules its citizens with a iron fist. That persecutes Christians, Jews, Muslim Minority. Doesn't allow free speech. No free elections. Controls the economy completely. Jails and executes dissidents on a whim. Commits acts of sabotage world wide against free countries. Funds and instigates acts of terrorism world wide. Steals intellectual property as much as it wants. No respect for other countries sovereignty. I can go on and on. Remember Tiananmen Square anyone? Just look at what's going on in Hong Kong right now.
I think i'll get off my soap box now and get ready for bed.

[Ivoryman]

We love Canada over here. Just a line in the forest between us and them. Of course some on the north side of the border may have problems reasoning logically, as some do here, but that's not Canada's problem, it's the choice people choose. But they are free to choose that and it's not about Canada, it's about China. I don't mind my dollars going to Canada and say Grohman, I do mind them going to China. Look what China does to Chris Reeves knives. Blatantly steals their ideas, designs, construction and even their copyrighted trade mark. And they don't compensate Chris Reeves for it either, they just steal like the criminals they are. They are thieves and liars and the enemy of freedom, democracy, and decency. Canada is not the enemy, even if some of their people hack the US.