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9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:21 am
by orvet
I picked up this Western recently and I usually can find most models in Harvey Platts book, but I am not sure what I have here.
Overall length is 9 inches and blade length is 5 inches. The guard is steel; the handle is of course leather and the pommel aluminum. The fuller in the blade is obvious and I cannot find a knife that corresponds to this in Harvey Platts book. The closest I have been able to figure it is this might be the 5 inch version of the L77 I saw listed on page 151, but the 5 inch L77 has an S guard.
I suppose it could also be a G-46-5” but again the guard is different and the G-46-5” has a lanyard hole in the pommel.

I would appreciate any help for any suggestions anyone can give me on this knife. It’s about the perfect size for an all-around hunting and camp knife.

Thank you in advance for your input.
Western 9 inch a.jpg
Western 9 inch b.jpg
Western 9 inch c.jpg

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:30 pm
by zzyzzogeton
Dale, what you have there is indeed a WW2 vintage G46-5, most likely mid to late 1942, since it has an aluminum pommel and a steel guard.

You are thinking of the G46-6 that has a lanyard hole and full guard.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:50 pm
by orvet
Thank you ZZ I was hoping you would reply on this topic.

Is this the knife H.M. Cole refers to as the “small shark” or other people refer to as “baby shark?”

I appreciate your expertise on Western knives and your willingness to share it.
I especially appreciate the specific information on this knife. Thanks again. ::handshake::

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:41 pm
by Producer
Wow Dale!
That is excellent. :)

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:51 pm
by zzyzzogeton
Yes, that is the "Baby Shark".

If you ever encounter a Shark or Baby Shark with a brass guard, then it is a post-WW2 version.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:01 pm
by Producer
This is one my son's Westerns. 5" blade, with lanyard hole etc.
Shown with three #36's for scale.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:06 pm
by zzyzzogeton
Producer

That Baby Shark with the lanyard hole -- is that guard aluminum rather than steel? In the picture, the guard appears thicker than a typical steel guard.

True factory drilled lanyard holes on the Baby Shark are seldom seen. How about some close up pics of the stamp and pommel, please. I can't get a good read on the stamp in the pic of the 3rd line when I enlarge the pic. I can see the "Pat", but not the rest. Is it a string of numers or is it "Made in USA"?

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:21 pm
by Producer
zzyzzogeton wrote:Producer

That Baby Shark with the lanyard hole -- is that guard aluminum rather than steel? In the picture, the guard appears thicker than a typical steel guard.

True factory drilled lanyard holes on the Baby Shark are seldom seen. How about some close up pics of the stamp and pommel, please. I can't get a good read on the stamp in the pic of the 3rd line when I enlarge the pic. I can see the "Pat", but not the rest. Is it a string of numers or is it "Made in USA"?
ZZ, thanks. My son says it says " Western, Boulder Colo, patd, Made in the USA.
Hole appears factory drilled.
Got to run to work. I'll get back to you 8)

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:36 pm
by zzyzzogeton
The "Made in the USA" indicates it was made AFTER WW2.

Very few of the wartime G46-5s had lanyard holes. I suspect that the few running around were part of a special order that requested lanyard holes. None of the wartime Westerns had aluminum guards and the aluminum pommels on 46-5s transitioned to a brown swirl plastic.

Western (and all the other knife manufacturers) put everything they had after the war was over and they were left holding the bag on runs in production into civilian sales.

The G46-5s and G46-6s of the early 1950s had brass guards. Brass was a little slower in being released for civilian products than aluminum, so
I would say that your son's knife is a 1946 to 1949 version. Long enough after August 1945 that aluminum had become available again, but not before Western ran out of pre-drilled G46-6 pommels.

It is a rare bird.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:39 pm
by Producer
zzyzzogeton wrote:The "Made in the USA" indicates it was made AFTER WW2.

Very few of the wartime G46-5s had lanyard holes. I suspect that the few running around were part of a special order that requested lanyard holes. None of the wartime Westerns had aluminum guards and the aluminum pommels on 46-5s transitioned to a brown swirl plastic.

Western (and all the other knife manufacturers) put everything they had after the war was over and they were left holding the bag on runs in production into civilian sales.

The G46-5s and G46-6s of the early 1950s had brass guards. Brass was a little slower in being released for civilian products than aluminum, so
I would say that your son's knife is a 1946 to 1949 version. Long enough after August 1945 that aluminum had become available again, but not before Western ran out of pre-drilled G46-6 pommels.

It is a rare bird.
Thanks ZZ. Just got home and we put a magnet to the guard and it sticks- that's steel.
The pommel is aluminum.
It is a nice older Western ::tu::

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:05 pm
by zzyzzogeton
OK - Steel guard, Made in the USA stamp = late 1940s for sure, scarce but not "rare". The factory lanyard hole is what makes that one a rare one.

Does he have the original sheaths? Curious the see what came with them (if any did).

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:38 pm
by Producer
zzyzzogeton wrote:OK - Steel guard, Made in the USA stamp = late 1940s for sure, scarce but not "rare". The factory lanyard hole is what makes that one a rare one.

Does he have the original sheaths? Curious the see what came with them (if any did).
First off, sorry Dale, for hijacking this thread. :oops:
Next up- yes, He has the sheath and it does appear original [imho].
Forgive the indoor shot but anyway:

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:11 am
by zzyzzogeton
Sheath is definitely correct.

Western sheaths used rivets and double-stitch construction. The sheath also confirms post-WW2. If you look at the retention strap, there is a square wave circling the outer edge of the female snap. WW2 era snaps were smooth.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:56 am
by orvet
No problem Producer, class is in session and I am here to learn too.
I have another.baby shark with a brass guard. I will try and get pics tomorrow.

Thanks again ZZ for sharing your knowledge with us! ::tu::

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:44 am
by orvet
Here are the two knives side by side.
Two Western Baby Sharks.jpg
The top one has been badly abused with a Scotch Brite wheel I suspect before I got it.
It has the double sided brass guard. Was that a later model?

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:33 pm
by Producer
Here is an L46-5. I've got the original sheath somewhere and will post it when I find it! :)

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:31 am
by zzyzzogeton
orvet wrote:Here are the two knives side by side.

Two Western Baby Sharks.jpg

The top one has been badly abused with a Scotch Brite wheel I suspect before I got it.
It has the double sided brass guard. Was that a later model?
The top G46-5 is 1946 to 1954. That is the time frame for the bird beak pommel, brass, full guard G46-5. When Western changed the post-WW2 G46-5 to a half guard and started putting the model numbers on the pile side ricassos, the model number was changed to L46-5.

Western knives made during the 1946 to 1954 time period can be sub-divided into 2 parts -

1946 to 1952 - Patent reference present as part of the stamp, be it the full patent number or just the partial word "PAT.".

1953 to 1954 - No patent reference and no model number.

Until about 2 years ago, those two subdivisions were the ONLY options that I ever believed existed.

There exists an extremely rare and very small set of knives that have both a reference to the patent AND a model number.

I now have 2 knives in my possession that have both a patent reference AND a model number. I think these knives indicate that the actual date of ending the patent number reference and the date of first model number stamps actually had a short overlap period, despite what Harlon Platts said and implied in TKMWWW. But the where did the "no patent no model" knives come from and why are there so many more of them than the dual marked versions.

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH. :mrgreen:

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:43 pm
by knife7knut
Not trying to hijack this post but rather add a similar knife that I just acquired today. Stamped,"Western Boulder Colo. Pat.No.1,967,47(5? last number is partially obliterated)" Five inch fullered blade with steel full guard that has a slot in it about 3/8ths of an inch wider than the blade.Aluminum pommel and leather handle. No sheath.Bought at a yard sale for $2.50. Any info is greatly appreciated.I posted this in the fixed blade forum also.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 pm
by zzyzzogeton
That is an unusual one. It is a G46-5 for sure, with some passing acquaintance with WW2.

This is just a guess, as I have no real info to point at, but on gut feel, there are 2 possibilities as to when your knife was made.

The first is that your's is a WW2 era knife that was somehow assembled with a G46-6 guard,as that slotted guards was standard for the G46-6.

The other possibility is that it is an early post-WW2 G46-5, made before brass became readily available and before Western added "MADE IN USA" to the stamp.

The post-war G46-5s, from about 1946 to about (as only a guess) about 1949, were made with the same full guards as the WW2-era and the 1946 to 1954 era G46-6s.

Either way, your's is a unique duck. Let me know if you want to part with it.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:59 pm
by Dinadan
This is a great thread. Thanks for sharing, fellows!

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:57 am
by knife7knut
zzyzzogeton wrote:That is an unusual one. It is a G46-5 for sure, with some passing acquaintance with WW2.

This is just a guess, as I have no real info to point at, but on gut feel, there are 2 possibilities as to when your knife was made.

The first is that your's is a WW2 era knife that was somehow assembled with a G46-6 guard,as that slotted guards was standard for the G46-6.

The other possibility is that it is an early post-WW2 G46-5, made before brass became readily available and before Western added "MADE IN USA" to the stamp.

The post-war G46-5s, from about 1946 to about (as only a guess) about 1949, were made with the same full guards as the WW2-era and the 1946 to 1954 era G46-6s.

Either way, your's is a unique duck. Let me know if you want to part with it.
Thank you very much for the information.I appreciate the offer but I don't sell knives;just accumulate them.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:26 am
by zzyzzogeton
Kinda like me.... :mrgreen:

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:43 am
by knife7knut
zzyzzogeton wrote:Kinda like me.... :mrgreen:
I know exactly what you mean. I showed my wife the knife tonight and her only response was:"And you NEEDED this why?" And when I told her it might be valuable she said,"Well sell it!" At least that was a lot better response than my first wife who would have punctuated her response with a series of expletives.And that is why she is an EX wife!
To me it is not so much the value of a particular knife than it is the finding of it.The hunt is always better.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:52 am
by zzyzzogeton
Well, if you ever get hit with a moment of insanity, hit me up.

I'm single, so the only responses/queries I ever get about my collection/accumulation is "How many do you have now?"

I can still honestly say "Less than 4000." For a while.

Re: 9 inch Fullered Western with 5 inch Blade - What Model is This?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:59 pm
by knife7knut
zzyzzogeton wrote:Well, if you ever get hit with a moment of insanity, hit me up.

I'm single, so the only responses/queries I ever get about my collection/accumulation is "How many do you have now?"

I can still honestly say "Less than 4000." For a while.
Sounds about right.I bought my first knife at the age of ten and still have it sixty-five years later.