Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

The first Robeson knives were imported by Millard Robeson from England and Germany exclusively. This continued from 1979 until 1896 when Robeson began manufacturing knives in the United States. Since inception, the company has gone through several reorganizations & eventually ended up as a Queen Cutlery brand.
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Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by herbva »

I got this large swell-center jack on fleabay thinking it would be a fun restoration project, but now I'm having second thoughts. The seller did disclose the chipped scales, broken primary blade tip and the bent liners, but didn't mention that the primary blade doesn't close all the way, or even close. (The last pic shows how far it will close, and the kick is flush against the spring.) I am starting to wonder if this knife was cobbled together, hence the bent liners and blade that doesn't fit. But, I'm not sure. I believe (thanks to RobesonsRme.com ) the tang stamps are circa 1896-1899 on the pen blade and 1900-1916 on the primary blade. I see no pattern number stamp or even remnants of one and I haven't been able to find a picture of this exact knife in any of my reference books. So, I'm not even sure what the shape of the primary blade should be (maybe sheepfoot). I know that I can adjust the kick to get the primary blade to fit better in the well, patch the scales, straighten the liners, etc. but would love to get a better idea about what I've got here before I start tearing into it. Any opinions or info would be greatly appreciated! ::hmm::
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by ea42 »

Herb that blade looks way too short for that frame. Is it possible that neither blade belongs and that the knife body could actually be from another manufacturer?

Eric
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by herbva »

Eric, that is certainly possible. But, the pen blade fits perfectly, and has excellent snap. I was initially suspicious of the "bomb shell" shield, but I have seen at least on other one shown on a vintage Robeson in my copy of Bruce Voyles' book. I'm now thinking that the primary blade may have been a spear that someone did a poor job of reprofiling after a broken tip. Thanks
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by ea42 »

herbva wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:33 pm Eric, that is certainly possible. But, the pen blade fits perfectly, and has excellent snap. I was initially suspicious of the "bomb shell" shield, but I have seen at least on other one shown on a vintage Robeson in my copy of Bruce Voyles' book. I'm now thinking that the primary blade may have been a spear that someone did a poor job of reprofiling after a broken tip. Thanks
Herb how do the blades match up to the springs when the blades are open? Are the springs even with the blade spines and equally as thick? Does the line of sight so to speak continue evenly from spring to blade spine on the spear blade?

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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by 1967redrider »

I've seen blades ride high, Herb, due to sharpening, but that one is odd. ::shrug:: I like Eric's approach- can you post a picture of the springs/spine? Any chance it was once a Hawksbill?
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by Gunsil »

That is a real early Robeson mark, and real early pick bone. I think the knife may just be right although busted up and main blade re-shaped. Never seen a hawksbill blade in a sell center frame.
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by herbva »

ea42 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:42 pm
herbva wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:33 pm Eric, that is certainly possible. But, the pen blade fits perfectly, and has excellent snap. I was initially suspicious of the "bomb shell" shield, but I have seen at least on other one shown on a vintage Robeson in my copy of Bruce Voyles' book. I'm now thinking that the primary blade may have been a spear that someone did a poor job of reprofiling after a broken tip. Thanks
Herb how do the blades match up to the springs when the blades are open? Are the springs even with the blade spines and equally as thick? Does the line of sight so to speak continue evenly from spring to blade spine on the spear blade?

Eric
Here are a few more pics. I think everything lines up pretty well, except the thicker spring for the big blade sits down well below the back edge of the liners. The is caused by the tang of the big blade being quite worn and I suspect that if/when I take the knife apart I will find not only a very worn tang, but also the usual depression or "divot" worn in the spring at the spot where the blade tang pivots. Every time I study this knife, I change my mind about whether the big blade could be original to this knife. But I'm still itching to find out if this is an original Robeson pattern.
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

Firstly, never use a secondary blade stamp to attempt to date a Robeson knife, they are immaterial unless identical to the master.

I agree with Gunsil, it's an old but abused Robeson jack.

I think it was, originally, a stabber jack, but as has been stated, the master is short and reprofiled.

The pick bone is consistent with that used by Robeson in the early years of the 20th century.

A long pull on a Robeson knife is quite rare and except for some premium quality pearl handled gentlemen's multi-blades, are found only on very old knives.

The shield is common on large frame Robeson jacks.

And I have seen and preserved photos of similar, but not exact, knives, but never owned one.

I'm not a knife mechanic, so I'll leave it to others to explain why the master sits high and will not close.

Charlie
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by ea42 »

Herb that dropped spring explains a lot. It's most likely tang and spring wear that caused the blade tip to rise like that. Just like the kick, if you remove steel from the portion of the tang that's in contact with the spring, or remove steel from the spring itself, that portion of the blade will drop to fill the void, causing the opposite end (the blade tip) to rise.

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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by herbva »

RobesonsRme.com wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:50 pm Firstly, never use a secondary blade stamp to attempt to date a Robeson knife, they are immaterial unless identical to the master.

I agree with Gunsil, it's an old but abused Robeson jack.

I think it was, originally, a stabber jack, but as has been stated, the master is short and reprofiled.

The pick bone is consistent with that used by Robeson in the early years of the 20th century.

A long pull on a Robeson knife is quite rare and except for some premium quality pearl handled gentlemen's multi-blades, are found only on very old knives.

The shield is common on large frame Robeson jacks.

And I have seen and preserved photos of similar, but not exact, knives, but never owned one.

I'm not a knife mechanic, so I'll leave it to others to explain why the master sits high and will not close.

Charlie
Charlie, thank you so much for all the valuable information. I wasn't even thinking about "stabber Jack", but my knife does look a lot like the picture you posted. I'm going to have fun trying to restore this old guy! Take care and stay safe!
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by herbva »

ea42 wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:52 pm Herb that dropped spring explains a lot. It's most likely tang and spring wear that caused the blade tip to rise like that. Just like the kick, if you remove steel from the portion of the tang that's in contact with the spring, or remove steel from the spring itself, that portion of the blade will drop to fill the void, causing the opposite end (the blade tip) to rise.

Eric
Eric, I think you nailed the problem. This is what I suspected, but I don't remember seeing a blade affected so badly by a worn tang and spring. Especially since the secondary blade has crisp snap and good 1/2 stops. I had a bit of free time this afternoon and couldn't resist getting started. Wow, there is a whopper of a divot worn in that spring and tang is missing a good bit of metal. I guess that whoever owned this knife for a very long time only used the primary blade. I'm probably going to send the spring and blade out to have some steel welded back on, and will try to repair everything else. If it comes out OK I will post the finished results. Thanks again and take care.
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by Doc B »

That has definitely seen a lot of use! Super cool looking blade!!! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

There are those that, for lack of something better to do, will sit around opening and closing a knife repeatedly for hours, days and years.

I tend to do it with thumb opening knives, but they all still close and their blades do not ride high.

Charlie
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by ea42 »

Wow Herb that's really a significant amount of loss! Something tells me that knife hadn't seen a drop of oil since it left the factory. Just about turned that square tang into a round tang. That wear is definitely your high blade culprit. Good luck on the rebuild!

Eric

PS- Great pics by the way!
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Re: Unusual Robeson Swell-Center Jack Opinions/Info Please

Post by carrmillus »

....that's what my grandpa would call "USED UP"!!!!!............... ::td:: ................
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