US Army Pocket Knives of WWII

[PvtRossi]

I finally was able to obtain copies of the Silvey books and read through them. Could I post pictures from it, without infringing on copyright?
The Camillus pocket knife (also made by other companies) and normally marked USA on the shield is, according to Silvey, and Engineers knife (unlike the Pocket, Knife, General Purpose that was supposed to replace most knives then in use, including the mess kit knife). Even though millions were made it still sounds like an item that the common infantryman or regular GI would have carried. So I believe that for my pre-1944 impression I will try to find a PX version or, better still, a period-correct civilian pocket knife, hopefully including also a can opener and bottle opener. Not sure if that was a thing for civilian pocket knives in the 1930s and 1940s, however.

[Mumbleypeg]

I think you were on the right track with the knives in your initial post. The most common pattern having a can opener and bottle opener (cap lifter) is the scout/utility pattern. Also sometimes called a camper pattern. It was adopted as an official knife of the Boy Scouts of America around 1912. Unofficial scout/utility knives were made by almost every American knife maker (or they had them made for them with their name stamped on them, by Camillus and others). Here’s a thread dedicated to the pattern, containing both official and unofficial versions. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12874#p103392

Of soldiers carrying “civilian” knives, many undoubtedly had one of these. If a civilian knife with can opener and botttke opener fits your needs, find a scout/utility knife from pre-1944 and you’ll be all set. JMO

Ken

[orvet]

This topic reminds me of a conversation I had with the late Tom Williams; he was the official historian of Camillus Cutlery as well as a 30-year employee.
Tom told me once that at the beginning of World War II the military was not prepared with knives for issue. He said we at Camilla and most Cutlery companies in America shipped just about every hunting knife we had to the military. They issued many of these fixed blade hunting knives to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. There was even a civilian knife drive where are the civilian population of the United States donated knives to the military to be issued to soldiers. I believe that included both fixed blade and folding knives.

My conversation with Tom, focused primarily on fixed blade hunting knives but I expect the military probably bought knives that had originally been made for the civilian Market and issued them to the Troops. They may have not been official military patterns but they where in all likelihood issued or given to the Troops.

As far as a period correct knife for your reenactment purposes goes, most any knife made prior to the start of the war potentially could have ended up in the hands of the troops. Do if the knife was made prior to 1941 I would think it would be right for your reenactment as this could have been a knife used by the greatest generation.

[PvtRossi]

Again, I want to thank y'all for your contributions to this threat and the help y'all are giving me for answering such a specific question, posed by somebody who is abysmally ignorant on the topic of pocket knives, for purposes other than collecting pocket knives. I truly appreciate it.

I think you were on the right track with the knives in your initial post. The most common pattern having a can opener and bottle opener (cap lifter) is the scout/utility pattern. Also sometimes called a camper pattern. It was adopted as an official knife of the Boy Scouts of America around 1912. Unofficial scout/utility knives were made by almost every American knife maker (or they had them made for them with their name stamped on them, by Camillus and others). Here’s a thread dedicated to the pattern, containing both official and unofficial versions. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12874#p103392
Of soldiers carrying “civilian” knives, many undoubtedly had one of these. If a civilian knife with can opener and botttke opener fits your needs, find a scout/utility knife from pre-1944 and you’ll be all set. JMO

Ken

Ken, thank you. Yes, that's what I am oriented toward now, a boy scout knife or a civilian knife 1930s or early 1940s. The thread you linked is amazing (194 pages!) and the collections there are astounding.
Unfortunately though most of the times I cannot see the adoption date / manufacture date of the knives presented in it, which is crucial for my goal obviously. I guess finding the official Boy Scouts of America knife of 1912 won't be hard. Finding other non-official scout knives or civilians knife made in the 1930s / early 1940s will not be easy for me, since my knowledge on the subject is so limited that I don't know how to date pocket knives, not even approximately.
I believe somebody in this thread mentioned that bone handles are a telling sign can show if they are pre-WWII manufacture or not (while synthetic handles is a post-war sign). Any other telling signs of a pre-WWII style pocket knife? What about wood handles?

This topic reminds me of a conversation I had with the late Tom Williams; he was the official historian of Camillus Cutlery as well as a 30-year employee.
Tom told me once that at the beginning of World War II the military was not prepared with knives for issue. He said we at Camilla and most Cutlery companies in America shipped just about every hunting knife we had to the military. They issued many of these fixed blade hunting knives to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. There was even a civilian knife drive where are the civilian population of the United States donated knives to the military to be issued to soldiers. I believe that included both fixed blade and folding knives.
My conversation with Tom, focused primarily on fixed blade hunting knives but I expect the military probably bought knives that had originally been made for the civilian Market and issued them to the Troops. They may have not been official military patterns but they where in all likelihood issued or given to the Troops.
As far as a period correct knife for your reenactment purposes goes, most any knife made prior to the start of the war potentially could have ended up in the hands of the troops. Do if the knife was made prior to 1941 I would think it would be right for your reenactment as this could have been a knife used by the greatest generation.

Yes, the "civilian knife drive" is also mentioned in the Silvvey. Something extremely interesting that I had no idea happened. It's truly a showcase example of the military unpreparedness of the US at the outbreak of the war, a stark difference from the situation of mid-1945.

[1967redrider]

I borrowed this picture from http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... tchblades/ which you may find interesting. Lots of great military knife information on that website!

[PvtRossi]

I borrowed this picture from http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... tchblades/ which you may find interesting. Lots of great military knife information on that website!

US Militaria is an awesome place. Lots of info for sure, but in this specific case it's all about the M-2 paratrooper knife...very familiar with that picture, which is the gear carried by paratrooper rifleman with grenade launcher of 503rd Parachute Infantry Battalion for the drop on Nadzab, New Guinea, in September 1943. M-2 switchblades are sweet, but very unlikely a normal grunt would carry one

[PvtRossi]

I wonder, for example, if either one of these two knives are period-correct and could be ok for me to use. Anybody can help in dating them?

[knifeaholic]

They both appear to have delrin handles, which would place them in the early 60's at the earliest.

[PvtRossi]

They both appear to have delrin handles, which would place them in the early 60's at the earliest.

I understand! Thank you knifeaholic. I can't distinguish real bone handles from synthetic material handles. Any advice or pointers?

[afishhunter]

Guys,

Thank you all for the plethora of information. I am a US WWII reenactor that tries to not be a "farb" (jargon for "not historically accurate") and hence the reason for my inquiry. Although soldiers were issued bayonets, veterans in the European and Mediterranean Theater very often discarded them, simply because there were almost never hand to hand combat, unlike in the Pacific Theater. On the other hand, trench knives were in reality issued to a limited number of individuals (those armed with M1 Carbine or heavy weapons). Most regular soldiers did not carry one. Many soldiers did carry hunting knives (such as the PAL RH-36) or special knives (the Rangers had the Fairbairn-Sykes, the FSSF had the V-42 and so on). But the vast majority of soldiers that were not issued specialized knives like paratroopers (the M2) or Signal Corps or Engineers (the TL-29) did not and still had the daily need for a blade (and a bottle opener and a can opener too at least). So they carried pocket knives. Since the war did not start with D-Day as many reenactors like to believe, I am interested to know what pocket knives would have found their way into the hands of regular GIs that fought from the start of the war through 1943 and into 1944.
Thus my interest into pocket knives is, for the moment, limited to this specific inquiry (although the world of pocket knives and knives in general is fascinating to me) and I am unable to afford Silvey's book. I welcome more suggestions and info as to what pocket knives might have been carried at the time by GIs.
One question I have is: it seems to me that the Army did not clearly contracted any specific maker to provide pocket knives. However, I know for a fact that the Army often bought lots of commercial items and then supplied them (for example, the famous paratrooper cricket, but also razors etc). Didn't anything similar happen for pocket knives? In other words, wouldn't a pocket knife popular at the time (for example Boy Scout pocket knives) be historically accurate to be carried by a GI?

Meanwhile, I will submit to your judgment a couple of pocket knives that I have meanwhile used. I have not been able to identify with certainty the models and the manufacture years. Maybe you will help me to shed some light and help me out.
The first one I BELIEVE might be a Camco 450, which I think might be a model produced during the war years. Unfortunately one of the safeties is lacking (and I take the occasion to ask for help as to where to find a replacement or how to make one, please).
The blade is marked Imperial Knife - Providence, R.I. and the can opener is marked Can Open - PAT (and then I can't discern anymore).
IMG_2953.jpg
IMG_2954.jpg

The second is a Barlow "Diamond Edge" possibly manufactured between the '30s and the early '50s. This is all I could find out. Blade is marked Imperial Knife - Providence, R.I.
IMG_2956.jpg
IMG_2957.jpg

I may be late to the party ... sorry.
The "Safety Can Opener" on your knives dates them to no earlier than 1947.
I learned thiswhen trying to narrow the date range on my Imperial "Engineer's" knife. (pen blade instead of the punch/reamer/awl blade.)