Pocket knives in the old west

[Steve Warden]

Arizona Ghostriders. I love this channel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xnJgfkY_J ... Vycw%3D%3D

[Mumbleypeg]

There were some old 1800s era pocket knives in an exhibit at the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. The theme of that exhibit was everyday items used by working cowboys. I don’t recall the maker’s names but they were Sheffield made. Somewhere I have a picture of it, I’ll see if I can find it.

Ken

[3030remchesterCOLO]

I grew up in rural western Colorado. Knew many real ranch hands as well as miners, carpenters and the like. Everybody carried a folder, yet few knew anything about make or design. Just what look good and cheap at the hardware store. The 2 pool riders I knew well each carried a folder of course. One carried a cheap Colonial barlow and the second carried an Uncle Henry stockman. The pool rider that carried the stockman had to kill his injured horse with the little knife as he never carried a gun, though the other pool rider carried a gun most of the time. It was a cheap Savage single shot 22 rifle with a welded together firing pin that went off most of the times.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

I grew up in rural western Colorado. Knew many real ranch hands as well as miners, carpenters and the like. Everybody carried a folder, yet few knew anything about make or design. Just what look good and cheap at the hardware store. The 2 pool riders I knew well each carried a folder of course. One carried a cheap Colonial barlow and the second carried an Uncle Henry stockman. The pool rider that carried the stockman had to kill his injured horse with the little knife as he never carried a gun, though the other pool rider carried a gun most of the time. It was a cheap Savage single shot 22 rifle with a welded together firing pin that went off most of the times.

Forgive my ignorance but what is a “pool rider”? Can’t find anything online that makes any sense.

[3030remchesterCOLO]

In cattle or sheep country, the rancher keeps his livestock on the ranch near him in the winter. However these field grow alfalfa for feeding their livestock in the winter, so what do we do with the livestock in the summer. They rent from the forest service, usually, high altitude grazing rights. Often several ranchers will join forces and graze their cattle in a common area. However, the rancher is needed on the ranch, not many miles away in the dense forests. So, they hire a man called a pool rider. It is his daily job to mount a horse and observe and protect the wandering herd that are not in any fences and to bring the cattle off their summer graze before winter hits. These pool riders often live in an old primitive one room cabin with no immunities except for a wood burning stove. Usually, these men are allowed one day every 7 to 10 days to go to town and bath, wash clothes and have a good meal. The cabins are called a line shack. What a life that must be.

[FRJ]

Intersting.
I wonder if they have any propane stoves or lights.
Are any food provisions packed to them. A cabin without water near by seems pretty desolate.
How do they care for their horses? They must have several with them.
Large and small caliber guns?

[3030remchesterCOLO]

Spent many a night in a line shack when not occupied by a rider. These cabins are left unlocked and have some sparce supplies for an emergency. All that I have been around are accessible by truck but are so far back and extremely rough roads in many cases. Way to long and rough of a trip for daily commutes. However, with the newer ATV's and UTV's being a pool rider is becoming a thing of the past. Being accessible by truck, the rider takes a truck load of supplies with him then parks the truck and works off horseback. About anything can be had in a line shack. Many have old non-working refrigerators, tables, bed, radio, Coleman lamps, etc. Horse just graze same as cattle. No cabin I have ever been around is not situated near a stream. Sheep ranchers don't often mix their herds and while in the high country don't hire a "pool" rider, just a solitary hand that lives in a modern type of covered wagon that can be moved from one location to another by vehicle when one pasture is grazed down. They too spend a summer of solitude in the high mountains.

[FRJ]

Spent many a night in a line shack when not occupied by a rider.

Thanks for the reply, 3030remchesterCOLO, If I were raised in that culture I think I could have fit in.

[knife7knut]

I would venture that the Barlow was likely a pretty popular pocket knife in that era. Most Sheffield made knives were priced above what an average person was willing or able to pay.
And the 1950's TV westerns didnt offer much in the way of accuracy when it came to knives. I dont know how many times l''ve seen a cowboy pull a post WWII stag handled German hunting knife from its sheath. On more than one occasion lve seen someone pull a shell handled tickler out and unfold it.
I would be curious as to what was actually used.

[Steve Warden]

Line shacks?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hKCyb0DEJ ... Vycw%3D%3D

[Sharpnshinyknives]

In cattle or sheep country, the rancher keeps his livestock on the ranch near him in the winter. However these field grow alfalfa for feeding their livestock in the winter, so what do we do with the livestock in the summer. They rent from the forest service, usually, high altitude grazing rights. Often several ranchers will join forces and graze their cattle in a common area. However, the rancher is needed on the ranch, not many miles away in the dense forests. So, they hire a man called a pool rider. It is his daily job to mount a horse and observe and protect the wandering herd that are not in any fences and to bring the cattle off their summer graze before winter hits. These pool riders often live in an old primitive one room cabin with no immunities except for a wood burning stove. Usually, these men are allowed one day every 7 to 10 days to go to town and bath, wash clothes and have a good meal. The cabins are called a line shack. What a life that must be.

Thank you for the explanation that helps. Learned something new today.

[3030remchesterCOLO]

There are a number of line shacks in our country. As I mentioned, even though they are technically owned, the shacks are unlocked and free to spend a night in if wanted. These cabins are full of most things necessary. Rusty frying pans, coffee pots, buckets, silverware, a few blankets and pillows, maybe an old jacket and hat and whatever and enough canned goods to last a few days. There are several unwritten rules. Wash your dishes and cut and replace the firewood you use. If you have anything "extra" with you, leave it for future use. Nails, wire, toilet paper, paper plates, canned goods and 22 shells are common gifts for staying.

[treefarmer]

Interesting stuff, 3030!
"Pool rider" is something new to my old ears. Thanks for sharing this with the forum.
What little I know about the cattle business is based on some experience and a lot of personal stories/tales of the Florida cow hunters, most who have gone on to meet their just reward. Grateful to have been associated with some "Old Florida" cattle people in my younger days. Could always count on interesting accounts of life in the old days from my wonderful Father-in-law.
Every state or region is a bit different but you can believe one thing, all of these Pool Riders, cowboys or cow hunters were as tough as nails! The ones I knew carried either a Case, Queen or a Treebrand folder when I was young and taking notes.
Treefarmer

[3030remchesterCOLO]

Did this tread ever get sidetracked! And it was all thanks to me. Sorry about that. Growing up around rough men like treefarmer, I enjoyed my time with them. I was always interested in their experiences and equipment they used. Their 22 rifles, and their knives always fascinated me, and still does. It surprised me how often a finally successful old rancher, farmer, trapper, or outdoorsman, actually carried the cheapest, least researched 22 rifle and knife. I knew one rough man that had a large construction company. He would buy a dozen identical pocketknives at a time. When the one he carried got dull, he would sharpen it on a bench grinder (shudder). When ground down too far he would throw it in the glove box of one of his trucks and bring out a new one. Didn't matter what pattern or make. Not a one I knew was much sentimental about anything. Cris Ladue's country song "this old hat" reminded me of an old, retired pool rider, rancher, forest service allotment rider, and generally tough old bird. Always wearing a Stetson that looked like it was 10 years past needing an oil change, I gave him a brand-new Stetson as a gift. I gave it to him in a cafe while having coffee. He tried it on, it fit well, and he tossed his old Stetson in the trash can next to the table. Because of their rough life few things they used daily survived. I possess a WW 2 Western shark knife a long dead trapper gave me that he had used since leaving the war. It looks rough and half ground down. He was "pealing" a badger one day when I came to visit, and he was using an old plastic handled Schrade trapper. Asking to see it, it was sway backed and nasty with untold amounts of skinned critter guts. He tossed it to me and said to just keep it. It still has the nastiness on and in it. There are so many stories yet to be told. But from the men I knew, knives were just tools to be used and thrown away when no more use could be had.

[bighomer]

Well I guess it may have went off the rails a bit but I for one shore enjoy yore tales, good stuff thanks for posting.

[doglegg]

Well I guess it may have went off the rails a bit but I for one shore enjoy yore tales, good stuff thanks for posting.

Me too.

[cavemans workshop]

I spent some time as a child in southern Utah….. I spent lots of time in cow camps during this time…. In the summer cattle were moved to the high country… we lived in a two room cabin. No running water, electricity, no tv or radio. We shot deer during these summer months and kept the carcass hanging in a screened in “meat house” venison wont spoil if kept cool and the flits are kept off of it…. In the winter we moved cattle into the desert. Lived in “caves” blasted out of the huge sandstone rocks. It was absolutely heaven to a young boy. This was early 1970s ….. the old men I stayed with both carried a Buck 110 and a trappers knife….. always carried a rifle as well. Usually a 243….. shot lots of mule deer, elk and varmits.
To this day I still love Buck 110s, trappers , Coleman lanterns and quiet solitude.

[TripleF]

Like this thread!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

[Mumbleypeg]

During my backpacking days I spent a night in an old line camp shack in Colorado. It was a one-room building made from logs, with one door and IIRC one window. A small table with two chairs, a bunk bed, a “sheepherder’s stove”, and a dirt floor. A “cabinet” made from an old wooden crate was attached to a wall. Elevation there was probably around 9000 feet. A small clear free-running spring ran by about 10 feet from it (I’m sure it wasn’t running in the winter but I doubt anyone was ever there during winter anyway).

I laughed when I saw that a prior occupant had scribbled on the interior face of one of the log walls:

“Please do not flick ashes on the rug.”

Getting back to the thread topic, I’m guessing by “Old West” Steve is referring to the latter half of the 1800’s, most likely the period between the end of the Civil War and the advent of barbed wire and automobiles. Barbed wire signaled the end of the open range and cattle drives, and mining strikes helped fuel westward expansion. During much of that time (pre-1900) many pocket knives were imported, despite some makers in the northeastern United States. That changed significantly after the McKinley Tariff Act of 1890, which made domestic pocket knives price competitive with imports from England and Europe, and a surge in American made goods including pocket knives. Until then most lower priced knives available were imports.

Ken

[GSPTOPDOG]

This was early 1970s ….. the old men I stayed with both carried a Buck 110 and a trappers knife….. always carried a rifle as well. Usually a 243….. shot lots of mule deer, elk and varmits.
To this day I still love Buck 110s, trappers , Coleman lanterns and quiet solitude.

When I WAS A KID IN THE 80's, I remember in the "neighborhood" (I lived out in the county in the desert) 110's on the men's belts and I always wanted a 110 as a kid (and I always loved trappers as well). My uncle gave me my 1st large lock-back knife, a Western (which I still have today). ... little did I know, that would send me down the road of "over-accumulation" of pocketknives.....

[3030remchesterCOLO]

Interesting thread for sure. Caveman, those old cow camps sure bring back my youth.

MUMBLEPEG, where were you when you spent the night in the line shack in Colorado? I might have been a guest in the same cabin.

Since the thread had moved towards modern ranchers, I will add another story. A friend is a rancher who lives in southern Colorado 8 miles from the nearest town which only has a population of @200 people. Though his ranch is 8 miles from town and 4 miles from his nearest neighbor, his cattle are pastured even future from town. Bill carried on his belt a cheap Pakistan copy of a Buck 110. Looking at his knife it was rough. The spine was beaten badly and heavily scarred. The blade was beyond loose. Asking why the knife was in this condition he related the following tale. Far from home he needed to spread a link in a chain, far enough to get another link inserted. He used a 12" crescent wrench to baton the blade into the chain link gap and then adjusted the wrench to firmly fit the width of the blade and started rocking the blade back and forth till the gap widened. Just another tool no different than a screwdriver or hammer. Use it up and throw it away and replace with a new one.

[Mumbleypeg]

MUMBLEPEG, where were you when you spent the night in the line shack in Colorado? I might have been a guest in the same cabin.

That was about 50 years ago so I’m not exactly sure, but I think we were in Arapaho National Forest. The other possibility is near Eleven Mile Lake southwest of Lake George. We found the trail on a topographical map, and stopped at the Ranger Station to report where we were going. We showed the Ranger the map and he told us it was an old Ute Indian trail, and only a few people used it every year. Naturally, the day after we spent the night at the shack we encountered three other people on the trail, going the opposite way. I haven’t backpacked any since about 25 years ago, but have been back in both areas a few years ago. A lot has changed, to the point I hardly recognized much.

Ken

[bighomer]

Speaking of free range cattle, back in the nineties we drove across the mountains from Lake Tahoe to the Modesto, anyway we were coming down the mountain and cattle were everywhere we just weaved in and out and around them, got down close to the bottom we needed a toilet break we stopped in a little place which was a beer joint , now the interesting thing about it was the celling was completely covered with bras, but anyway I said to the bartender that somebodies cattle wuz out up the road aways, he said nah they are free range cattle.

[3030remchesterCOLO]

MUMBLEPEG, where were you when you spent the night in the line shack in Colorado? I might have been a guest in the same cabin.

That was about 50 years ago so I’m not exactly sure, but I think we were in Arapaho National Forest. The other possibility is near Eleven Mile Lake southwest of Lake George. We found the trail on a topographical doesn't stopped at the Ranger Station to report where we were going. We showed the Ranger the map and he told us it was an old Ute Indian trail, and only a few people used it every year. Naturally, the day after we spent the night at the shack we encountered three other people on the trail, going the opposite way. I haven’t backpacked any since about 25 years ago, but have been back in both areas a few years ago. A lot has changed, to the point I hardly recognized much.

Ken

Most likely it was the Arapaho district as the Eleven Mile region doesn't have a ranger that I am aware of. I live in the area and the few line shacks remaining have all been abandoned and now cows wander in and out to the few that remain.