Info about this Queen City

[Froe]

I bought this at gun show in Ohio maybe 20+ years ago. It’s stamped Queen City and I know nothing more. I was hoping someone here could give me some info as I’m not really that knowledgeable about Queen. Is it legit, is there a model number, etc…?
Froe

[treefarmer]

Froe,
I believe the tang stamp chart shows that stamp being used from 1922-1942 and again from 2004-2017.
The handles sure look good, mighty fine Winterbottom bone.
Have not looked up what pattern it might be.
Treefarmer

[Froe]

Thanks TF.
Froe

[Mumbleypeg]

Given the thick handles that are hafted down to match the bolster thickness I’m guessing it from the latter (2004-2017) time period. Thick handle covers became popular in the late 1960s to 1970s. Prior to that covers were mostly thinner material that didn’t need as much hafting. JMO. Also check the cover material to see if it is Delrin or real bone. From the pictures I can’t tell if there is conclusive evidence of Haversian canals, which are present in bone. Delrin wasn’t invented until the 1950s and didn’t come into widespread use for cutlery until the late 1960s. Just some clues to look for.

Ken

[FRJ]

I'm thinking that equal end pen has Delrin covers. Nice knife.

[Froe]

Thanks for looking guys. My apologies for the initial pics, the lighting was not very good.
It does have bone handles, the shield is pinned, the weight and snap are heavy, both blades are magnet attractive, it does have a sunk pivot pin on the master and there is no country of origin stamp. It’s a sturdy piece.
What is driving some of my doubts about the knife is that I can’t find any match to a Queen pattern. That and I just went through my collection recently with a little more critical eye and found about four fakes that I’ve picked up over the last forty something years. The fakes rattle your confidence a little. Especially when the light wear doesn’t match the Queen City era.
Here are some pics in better light.
Froe

[treefarmer]

Most of the time it's easy for me to tell if a Winterbottom handle is real or imitation. I'm looking at the last picture in the last post and it sure looks like veins especially on the right side.
Also noticed the shield is pinned, when did Queen start gluing shields?
This knife appears to be a bit longer than 4 inches, still haven't found anything like it, yet.
Sure hope someone can ID it for you (and me).
Treefarmer

[Froe]

Most of the time it's easy for me to tell if a Winterbottom handle is real or imitation. I'm looking at the last picture in the last post and it sure looks like veins especially on the right side.
Also noticed the shield is pinned, when did Queen start gluing shields?
This knife appears to be a bit longer than 4 inches, still haven't found anything like it, yet.
Sure hope someone can ID it for you (and me).
Treefarmer

Thanks TF!

[bighomer]

That's a big old hunk of knife, I've looked on line at the queen historical catalogs and I can't find anything like it.
Dan Burke made some cattle knives and I think they made one with Robeson tang on it.
There were a lot of parts that left that place when it was auctioned, I know Gilbert Cooper put some knives together using parts from there, and I expect there was others. one thing about it I don't believe the catalogs showed every knife they made and they just go back to '47.

[stockman]

It is a pretty knife. Neat tobacco tin.

Harold

[Froe]

That's a big old hunk of knife, I've looked on line at the queen historical catalogs and I can't find anything like it.
Dan Burke made some cattle knives and I think they made one with Robeson tang on it.
There were a lot of parts that left that place when it was auctioned, I know Gilbert Cooper put some knives together using parts from there, and I expect there was others. one thing about it I don't believe the catalogs showed every knife they made and they just go back to '47.

Thanks for looking Homer.
I got this at a gun show 20+ years ago as best I remember. So I think it predates the Queen liquidation. That and there’s no country of origin stamp. So I don’t know
But thanks again.
Froe

[Froe]

It is a pretty knife. Neat tobacco tin.

Harold

Thanks!

[Rookie]

It sort of matches the Queen Big Cigar pattern, sometimes referred to by other names like Bullhead, Large Cattle Knife, or Equal End Cigar.

An example of this knife was made in stag in 1981 for the NKCA Club Knife. picture attached.

In the late 1970's master cutler Fred Sampson searched through a box of old Schatt & Morgan dies that were in storage in the Queen factory since around 1907. He found this pattern, and finally convinced the owners to make some samples of it. When the 12,000 knives were made for the NKCA knife in 1981, the dies were also donated to the NKCA so that the pattern would not ever be made again.

I don't believe that pattern ever shows in any of the Queen catalogs.

[Froe]

It sort of matches the Queen Big Cigar pattern, sometimes referred to by other names like Bullhead, Large Cattle Knife, or Equal End Cigar.

An example of this knife was made in stag in 1981 for the NKCA Club Knife. picture attached.

In the late 1970's master cutler Fred Sampson searched through a box of old Schatt & Morgan dies that were in storage in the Queen factory since around 1907. He found this pattern, and finally convinced the owners to make some samples of it. When the 12,000 knives were made for the NKCA knife in 1981, the dies were also donated to the NKCA so that the pattern would not ever be made again.

I don't believe that pattern ever shows in any of the Queen catalogs.

Well I’ll be darned. Thank you Carl! I believe that is the frame. And the pen blade size and tang shape seems to match as well. This lends some confidence to me about the knifes authenticity. Up until now I had some doubts just because the knife looks so good for its possible age.
Thanks very much.
Froe

[Rookie]

It sort of matches the Queen Big Cigar pattern, sometimes referred to by other names like Bullhead, Large Cattle Knife, or Equal End Cigar.

An example of this knife was made in stag in 1981 for the NKCA Club Knife. picture attached.

In the late 1970's master cutler Fred Sampson searched through a box of old Schatt & Morgan dies that were in storage in the Queen factory since around 1907. He found this pattern, and finally convinced the owners to make some samples of it. When the 12,000 knives were made for the NKCA knife in 1981, the dies were also donated to the NKCA so that the pattern would not ever be made again.

I don't believe that pattern ever shows in any of the Queen catalogs.

Well I’ll be darned. Thank you Carl! I believe that is the frame. And the pen blade size and tang shape seems to match as well. This lends some confidence to me about the knifes authenticity. Up until now I had some doubts just because the knife looks so good for its possible age.
Thanks very much.
Froe

Happy to help. The pen blade tang shape area certainly seems to be a dead ringer match. The pattern shape really seems to match, although one has a spear main and the other a clip. Regarding the tang, the "officially recognized" dates are referenced in the tang dating guides. But one point should always be noted with Queen, in talking with Fred who ran the factory for quite some time, he said "We'd just grab a tang stamp off the shelf and use it. Never really gave much thought into rhyme or reason. If it fit, we used it."

So dating a Queen knife solely by the tang is sometimes just an educated guess. They didn't stick to the rules that Case did where certain stamps used for certain years, and then never used again.

[btrwtr]

Very nice looking knife. It looks to have been made in the same time frame as the NKCA knives or sooner. I doubt it is much older than that. Great looking Winterbottom bone.

[Froe]

Very nice looking knife. It looks to have been made in the same time frame as the NKCA knives or sooner. I doubt it is much older than that. Great looking Winterbottom bone.

Thanks Wayne. The wear on the knife would be about what I’d expect from a knife from that era. But what do you think of the lack of a country of origin stamp? Did Queen ever etch that? Then buffing could have eliminated it?
Froe

[Rookie]

Very nice looking knife. It looks to have been made in the same time frame as the NKCA knives or sooner. I doubt it is much older than that. Great looking Winterbottom bone.

Thanks Wayne. The wear on the knife would be about what I’d expect from a knife from that era. But what do you think of the lack of a country of origin stamp? Did Queen ever etch that? Then buffing could have eliminated it?
Froe

From around 1940 to 1980's Queen stamps very rarely included Titusville or Pennsylvania or USA on them. Usually it just said Queen or Queen Steel or Queen City.

[Froe]

Very nice looking knife. It looks to have been made in the same time frame as the NKCA knives or sooner. I doubt it is much older than that. Great looking Winterbottom bone.

Thanks Wayne. The wear on the knife would be about what I’d expect from a knife from that era. But what do you think of the lack of a country of origin stamp? Did Queen ever etch that? Then buffing could have eliminated it?
Froe

From around 1940 to 1980's Queen stamps very rarely included Titusville or Pennsylvania or USA on them. Usually it just said Queen or Queen Steel or Queen City.

Ahhhh. That fills in a big blank for me. Thanks Carl. I’m now more comfortable saying it’s probably not a recent fake.
Froe

[treefarmer]

Ahhhh. That fills in a big blank for me. Thanks Carl. I’m now more comfortable saying it’s probably not a recent fake.
Froe
[/quote]

Froe,
Rookie(Carl) has provided several Queen tang stamp charts found under the knife Related Q&A part of the forum, page 6. Lots of info when we acquire an old Queen that is questionable.
Treefarmer

[FRJ]

I'm thinking that equal end pen has Delrin covers. Nice knife.

I was wrong thinking that knife had Delrin covers.
Even better that it's bone.

[Froe]

Ahhhh. That fills in a big blank for me. Thanks Carl. I’m now more comfortable saying it’s probably not a recent fake.
Froe

Froe,
Rookie(Carl) has provided several Queen tang stamp charts found under the knife Related Q&A part of the forum, page 6. Lots of info when we acquire an old Queen that is questionable.
Treefarmer
[/quote]

Thanks TF, I should have thought to look there.

[Froe]

I'm thinking that equal end pen has Delrin covers. Nice knife.

I was wrong thinking that knife had Delrin covers.
Even better that it's bone.

Thanks Joe!