Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
- treefarmer
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Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
My friend came across several knives a few weeks back, among them were two 3 blade knives that were identical except for the amount of wear. Both have a patent number, 3,317,996. This led to a search that indicated this is or was a patent owned by Antonio Paolantonio Johnston R.I. Colonial Knife Co. July 6, 1965. My question is how similar to the Swendin system is this patent? These knives could pass for a Shrade Old Timer 80T if it were not for the 3 back springs. Was there any connection between Colonial Ranger and Shrade Old Timer? These seem to be rather sturdy knives that would be ideal EDCs. Treefarmer
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
I've got a camouflage knife, but I can't find it.......
..... cardboard addicted.....
"The old timer's concentrated on making knives; not keeping records!!" ~ Bonfire bob
..... cardboard addicted.....
"The old timer's concentrated on making knives; not keeping records!!" ~ Bonfire bob
Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Good question!treefarmer wrote:My friend came across several knives a few weeks back, among them were two 3 blade knives that were identical except for the amount of wear. Both have a patent number, 3,317,996. This led to a search that indicated this is or was a patent owned by Antonio Paolantonio Johnston R.I. Colonial Knife Co. July 6, 1965. My question is how similar to the Swendin system is this patent? These knives could pass for a Shrade Old Timer 80T if it were not for the 3 back springs.
This is new to me, I had not seen that before.
Hopefully Bobby will fill us in on the patent and how well this worked.
There are definitely similarities to the Swinden system but I would need to find an example of the knife made this way and disassemble it.
In the Swinden system the handle, outer liner & bolster are all one assembly. The blades, center liner and the master blade spring are another assembly. The spring for the secondary blades is unattached until assembly takes place.
It appears in the Colonial system the knife has assembled and then the bolster are added on last. The downside to this system as I understand it, is that it could be even more difficult to tighten loose blades than it is with the Swinden system. I'm not sure, but that is the way it appears.
Can be bolsters be taken off, blades replaced, the knife reassembled and then the bolsters reattached in the Colonial system.
Perhaps Bobby can fill us in on the details of how it works.
Dale
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- treefarmer
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Looking around in the goodies box, I found another Colonial 3 blade knife with the same patent number on the pen blade as on my friends Ranger knives, 3,317,996. This old knife is 3 3/8" closed, has half stops and 3 springs. The bolsters have no pins showing just like the Shrades. This knife would also be a great EDC. Treefarmer
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Greetings treefarmer...Hey Joe and Dale, I think I'm going to start a seperate forum about me and Colonial because many folks here at AAPK still don't know who I am!
Treefarmer, my name is Bobert A. Paolantonio, third generation Colonial owner and cutler.
Rather than spend lots of time explaining who I am, I would definately suggest you visit my blog at :myfamilybusinessbook@gmail.com. There you'll see a treasure trove of Colonial's history and lear about the book I have for sale and have recently released to the public about my family business, Colonial knife Company!
Back to the Rangers...boy these baby's have seen some action but it appears they are still in one piece! The medium thre blade is our # 523, three blade stockman. The large stockman is our # 533. These were very popular and through the years, we sold MILLIONS of them. FYI, Colonial was the second largest manufacturer of pocket knives in the world,
that consisted of a factory over 200,000 square feet that I spent the better part of 40 years working in. The patent # that you'll find on many of these knives pertains to the bolster patent that uncle Tony registered back in the 60's. The design at that time was to use a tubular rivet on each end of the liners and assemble the knife completely, less the center pin of course. The liner's had a recessed hole on each end, (as Joe's picture shows quite closely), and the bolster's had a pin or pimple like stud on the back of the bolster.
After the tub. rivet assembly was completed, we would open the blades, pop on the four bolster's, and place the knife in a press that came down and squashed the bolster pin into the liner, and this fantastic design worked like a charm so that's why we pulled a patent on it!! You'll see that long patent # on many of our knives from the late 60's and up because they are made in this fashion! The Ranger's came in numerous color's like black, yellow, off white and even some blue and red on some private labels...
That second old worn knife was our old # 4633, and was part of the TP-333 display card that Joe shows..
Pleas check out my blog and I am here for you with any other Colonial questions you may have. My e-mail is : bonfirebob11@cox.net if you need to reach me..I hope I was helpful and will continue to do so!!
Best regards, Bobby Paolantonio, CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler, and Heritage Cutler's..
Treefarmer, my name is Bobert A. Paolantonio, third generation Colonial owner and cutler.
Rather than spend lots of time explaining who I am, I would definately suggest you visit my blog at :myfamilybusinessbook@gmail.com. There you'll see a treasure trove of Colonial's history and lear about the book I have for sale and have recently released to the public about my family business, Colonial knife Company!
Back to the Rangers...boy these baby's have seen some action but it appears they are still in one piece! The medium thre blade is our # 523, three blade stockman. The large stockman is our # 533. These were very popular and through the years, we sold MILLIONS of them. FYI, Colonial was the second largest manufacturer of pocket knives in the world,
that consisted of a factory over 200,000 square feet that I spent the better part of 40 years working in. The patent # that you'll find on many of these knives pertains to the bolster patent that uncle Tony registered back in the 60's. The design at that time was to use a tubular rivet on each end of the liners and assemble the knife completely, less the center pin of course. The liner's had a recessed hole on each end, (as Joe's picture shows quite closely), and the bolster's had a pin or pimple like stud on the back of the bolster.
After the tub. rivet assembly was completed, we would open the blades, pop on the four bolster's, and place the knife in a press that came down and squashed the bolster pin into the liner, and this fantastic design worked like a charm so that's why we pulled a patent on it!! You'll see that long patent # on many of our knives from the late 60's and up because they are made in this fashion! The Ranger's came in numerous color's like black, yellow, off white and even some blue and red on some private labels...
That second old worn knife was our old # 4633, and was part of the TP-333 display card that Joe shows..
Pleas check out my blog and I am here for you with any other Colonial questions you may have. My e-mail is : bonfirebob11@cox.net if you need to reach me..I hope I was helpful and will continue to do so!!
Best regards, Bobby Paolantonio, CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler, and Heritage Cutler's..
- treefarmer
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Bonfire bob, Thanks for the great information. Honestly, I hadn't paid a lot of attention to Colonial knives in the past. I have several Colonials that have been well used by others, but since you have started here on AAPK, I've found them quite a bit more intresting. Treefarmer
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Your very welcome my friend!! With all this new attention, I felt it important to start my own forum labeled "Colonial Knife Co. Knives and History, ask me"...
Further questions and Colonial dicussion's I hope will be conducted here! Thanks again!
People have been looking for Colonial Knife answers for years, well, here I am!!
Further questions and Colonial dicussion's I hope will be conducted here! Thanks again!
People have been looking for Colonial Knife answers for years, well, here I am!!
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
I just listed this small Ranger stockman on ebay..
Great little knife..
Great little knife..
SCOTT
HOME OF THE BRAVE! (not the scarety cats)
Colonial Knife Company History ebook:
https://gumroad.com/l/ZLDb
HOME OF THE BRAVE! (not the scarety cats)
Colonial Knife Company History ebook:
https://gumroad.com/l/ZLDb
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Cute little # 923 you've got there Scott! This as you know was our medium Ranger. I may have not mentioned it before but because the Delrin plastic handles on these and others like it was so hard, we needed special ink to do the surface imprints.
At one time, my dad's division of Colonial known as Embassador or Embassy Manufacturing brought in a MILLION DOLLAR'S a year!! Ad specialty was a huge profit maker for Colonial!!
This little baby ought to bring you at least 10-15 bucks on ebay buddy! Good luck!!
At one time, my dad's division of Colonial known as Embassador or Embassy Manufacturing brought in a MILLION DOLLAR'S a year!! Ad specialty was a huge profit maker for Colonial!!
This little baby ought to bring you at least 10-15 bucks on ebay buddy! Good luck!!
- treefarmer
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Scott, we used to buy Northrup King field corn seed years ago. I knew the logo looked familair. Treefarmer
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
I came across this knife yesterday..it was my grandpas..it looks like the one first posted. I'd like to know more info and possibly the year.
- treefarmer
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Carver, Can't say much about the knife information wise other than what Bonfire Bob gave in response to the knives my friend found last year. I had hoped to trade him out of the most ragged one but haven't done it yet. But this I do know, you have a very special knife if it belonged to your grandfather. Clean it up and hang on to it! Oh and by the way welcome to AAPK, the friendliest knife forum around! Treefarmer
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Holy cow and welcome aboard Carver! Treefarmer is correct; you will not find a more friendly or informative knife site in existance!!
Just so you know my name is Bob Paolantonio, third generation cutler/owner of Colonial Knife Company. Since I've spent the better part of 35+ years in the factory, I can answer most questions about Colonials from the late 20's to 1998, when Colonial closed it's doors...
What you have here is a Ranger, model #933, three blade large stockman, in what appears to be our off white or yellow plastic handles. I am very suprised that it looks like it spent some years in a dirt house floor or at the bottom of an old tool box, and the 1075 carbon steel blades are not more rusty!! That just tells me that where ever it was there was not a ton of moisture around. A lite buff on this baby will definately bring out the shine on those plated bolster's and handles, but I'm afraid those blades are better off oiling and keeping clean and dry. A drop of oil in the tang pivot rivets will probably bring back the blades there original snap. I hope this info helps you with any questions you may have had. I am happy to help with any info possible with Colonial's, just ask the guys!
You can check out my blog if you have any interests in Colonial Knife Company....
Go to : myfamilybusinessbook@gmail.com.
Bobby P. CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler, Heritage Cutlers Inc...
Just so you know my name is Bob Paolantonio, third generation cutler/owner of Colonial Knife Company. Since I've spent the better part of 35+ years in the factory, I can answer most questions about Colonials from the late 20's to 1998, when Colonial closed it's doors...
What you have here is a Ranger, model #933, three blade large stockman, in what appears to be our off white or yellow plastic handles. I am very suprised that it looks like it spent some years in a dirt house floor or at the bottom of an old tool box, and the 1075 carbon steel blades are not more rusty!! That just tells me that where ever it was there was not a ton of moisture around. A lite buff on this baby will definately bring out the shine on those plated bolster's and handles, but I'm afraid those blades are better off oiling and keeping clean and dry. A drop of oil in the tang pivot rivets will probably bring back the blades there original snap. I hope this info helps you with any questions you may have had. I am happy to help with any info possible with Colonial's, just ask the guys!
You can check out my blog if you have any interests in Colonial Knife Company....
Go to : myfamilybusinessbook@gmail.com.
Bobby P. CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler, Heritage Cutlers Inc...
Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Thank you both for your response! I'll have my husband clean it up..its possible my grandpa found the knife. I'll just put it in the display box along with a few other things of his. This is really a great forum! Thanks again!
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
I bought my first Ranger stockman for variety. It is listed at $5 on ebay and I'm the only bidder. Probably because of rust and uninteresting black scales. I was planning to use it as an EDC since I'm a big fan of carbon steel pocket knives.
Ever since I finished sharpening it, my impression is that I will be hard pressed to find another steel blade heat treated this right!
I own perhaps 60 slip joints (from 30 brands / makers). It made my Hen & Rooster (Bethram Cutlery) stockman a disappointment. It made my Schrade 8OT mediocre. It was just so easy to sharpen, to the point that just on my coarse stone, it was threatening to slice paper. It was easy to finish on a cheap washita. The burrs formed was not stubborn like some 1095. I was scratch my head: Did colonial did something special? I then goggled "Ranger Pocket Knives" and here I am. So...IT WAS 1075? Great steel, great steal! I did not notice any appreciable loss of edge retention (compared to my other 1095s) after slicing up a few sheets of 80gsm paper. The knife had THREE springs too! (Well Buck's 301 Stockman had 3 springs too, but it doesn't have middle liners) It also sports a nice concealed pivot pin type bolsters. The scales are nicely saw-cut delrin? Nicely pinned to the liners too (perfect dome-shaped rivets) and nice long nail pulls. At the average price of $5-$15 on ebay, this is a knife every carbon steel slip JOINT FAN SHOULD OWN!
I was in fact so impressed that I bought a new in the pack vintage Ranger dated 1977 and sub-named "KODIAK", just for keeps.
I have a question for Bob though: Are Anvil branded, Frontier (powder horn)knives using these 1075 steel as well?
Many thanks!
Ever since I finished sharpening it, my impression is that I will be hard pressed to find another steel blade heat treated this right!
I own perhaps 60 slip joints (from 30 brands / makers). It made my Hen & Rooster (Bethram Cutlery) stockman a disappointment. It made my Schrade 8OT mediocre. It was just so easy to sharpen, to the point that just on my coarse stone, it was threatening to slice paper. It was easy to finish on a cheap washita. The burrs formed was not stubborn like some 1095. I was scratch my head: Did colonial did something special? I then goggled "Ranger Pocket Knives" and here I am. So...IT WAS 1075? Great steel, great steal! I did not notice any appreciable loss of edge retention (compared to my other 1095s) after slicing up a few sheets of 80gsm paper. The knife had THREE springs too! (Well Buck's 301 Stockman had 3 springs too, but it doesn't have middle liners) It also sports a nice concealed pivot pin type bolsters. The scales are nicely saw-cut delrin? Nicely pinned to the liners too (perfect dome-shaped rivets) and nice long nail pulls. At the average price of $5-$15 on ebay, this is a knife every carbon steel slip JOINT FAN SHOULD OWN!
I was in fact so impressed that I bought a new in the pack vintage Ranger dated 1977 and sub-named "KODIAK", just for keeps.
I have a question for Bob though: Are Anvil branded, Frontier (powder horn)knives using these 1075 steel as well?
Many thanks!
- jerryd6818
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
pecktecksiong -- Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Greetings "pecktecksiong" and welcome aboard! This site is the only knife site you'll ever need for all pocket knife information. That includes myself, Bob Paolantonio, third generation owner/cutler, Colonial Knife Company, and all around info man.
The Ranger line was so succsesful, we made them for years in many different styles and private labels. The 1075 steel was widely used on many knives, especially the Ranger and the Andvil Brands. The sharpness is realy a reflection of the .060 thickness used on these knives and this allows the grinding process to create a sharper blade! If you look at most of your sharp kitchen knives, they are relatively thin also. The combination of the 1075 grade of steel and around the 60 thousand thickness was a match made in heaven!
Years ago we decided to use three springs for additional strength of the knife in general, and for omitting an additional operation that was used on the Old Cutler that had three blades and only two springs. Here's where the bench cutler like myself comes in. To insure the blades fall into the pocket of the knife, the tang of the sheep foot and spey blades had to be hit with a "step", (a three level small steel block) and a hammer, and this gave the bend you'll see in lots of your pocket knives. You had to be very carefull to hit the tang with the hammer just right, or you could break the blade, hit and break the handle material and damage the whole knife. This took me years to master and one of the important talents of a cutler. You can tell with poorly made knives when you see scratched blades that have not been dropped correctly. After 35+ years at my work bench, I could do this blind folded!
I think I answered most of your questions my friend and if not, please feel free to elaborate on anything and I will do my best to help.
Once again, welcome aboard.....
Bobby Paolantonio, CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler and Heritage Cutler's....
The Ranger line was so succsesful, we made them for years in many different styles and private labels. The 1075 steel was widely used on many knives, especially the Ranger and the Andvil Brands. The sharpness is realy a reflection of the .060 thickness used on these knives and this allows the grinding process to create a sharper blade! If you look at most of your sharp kitchen knives, they are relatively thin also. The combination of the 1075 grade of steel and around the 60 thousand thickness was a match made in heaven!
Years ago we decided to use three springs for additional strength of the knife in general, and for omitting an additional operation that was used on the Old Cutler that had three blades and only two springs. Here's where the bench cutler like myself comes in. To insure the blades fall into the pocket of the knife, the tang of the sheep foot and spey blades had to be hit with a "step", (a three level small steel block) and a hammer, and this gave the bend you'll see in lots of your pocket knives. You had to be very carefull to hit the tang with the hammer just right, or you could break the blade, hit and break the handle material and damage the whole knife. This took me years to master and one of the important talents of a cutler. You can tell with poorly made knives when you see scratched blades that have not been dropped correctly. After 35+ years at my work bench, I could do this blind folded!
I think I answered most of your questions my friend and if not, please feel free to elaborate on anything and I will do my best to help.
Once again, welcome aboard.....
Bobby Paolantonio, CKCo., R.A.P. Cutler and Heritage Cutler's....
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Thank you so much for your help, Bob. I felt privileged and honoured. Wow..... from the owner and cutler himself!
I will be on the look out for Anvil Branded knives. I read somewhere that the R.I school of design students had a part in the design. How many makers does that? Collectible, definitely!
Oh yes, silly me...the thinner grind helps. A great cutting blade overall! Learnt many new things today!
Don't you love the old graphics from the 70s?
I will be on the look out for Anvil Branded knives. I read somewhere that the R.I school of design students had a part in the design. How many makers does that? Collectible, definitely!
Oh yes, silly me...the thinner grind helps. A great cutting blade overall! Learnt many new things today!
Don't you love the old graphics from the 70s?
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Hi Jerry D. I wonder how a #72 pattern looks like. Any clue?
- jerryd6818
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Maybe. Thanks for your interest.pecktecksiong wrote:Hi Jerry D. I wonder how a #72 pattern looks like. Any clue?
Specifications for the #72 are three blades, swell center, 3-5/8" closed length. Main blade is a clip cozied up next to a coping blade with a small clip on the opposite end. The #72 is a Camillus pattern with the #1047 being the Boy Scout version. Camillus also made a version with milled liners, gimping on the back of the center liner and all nickel silver metal parts except for the blades of course. They called it the #80 Deluxe Carpenter's & Whittler's knife. The #72s and #1047s are common and easy to come by. The #80s are few and far between.
Then there are what I call the clones (I'm pretty sure Camillus was the first to make the pattern in 1946). Schrade called it an #863, Ulster called it a #63, Sears had them made by Ulster as a #9494 and Imperial made a Scout version. Montgomery Wards contracted Camillus for their #84-11. The owner of the Remington tang stamp had one made by Camillus which is the #R-14. Many different tang stamps but only a few manufacturers and all with the specifications listed above. Since this is the Colonial Forum, I'll just say if Colonial ever made one I've never seen it. Here are a couple for your viewing pleasure.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.
This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.
"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Jerry D and Bobby, your sharing makes me realise how little I know. Thank you very much for the almost encyclopaedic info.
This is indeed the only place you need to be, where pocket knives are concerned.
This is indeed the only place you need to be, where pocket knives are concerned.
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Hello gents and gals..AAPK kicked me off last week and I had to come in through a back door to get here! Gotta check that problem out eventually....
First off, Mr. Peckt. for short, shows us some old 70's combo card of a knife basically constructed like the Ranger. Unlike the Ranger with seperate bolster's, the 46 series is a shell knife. The # 4601, 4602, and the 4603 respectively...then a single card with our old # 4633, but on a three knife card was called the TP-333 set...
I wanted to elaborate a bit on bending the blades as I previously explained...
When the blades are half open and you strike the tang to bend the blade, it's actually hit more on the kick part of the tang. The kick? Well, this is part of the tang that sticks out a bit on the inside that "kicks" inside the knife when you close it. It falls against the inside of the spring which is called "the blade's walk". This is the portion of the spring that the blade rides on when opening and closing. A few thousand of these and many tips from the old timer's will make you a pro, if it's in your blood..
Mr. Jerryd6818, your knife knowledge is extensive and you seem like the kind of gent that would have fit in right next to me on my work bench! You sure know your Camillus line....
Like Camillus, Imperial and many other manufacturers, private labeling was a big part of our business, just like today with many consumer products...
Just to state for a fact, Colonial NEVER made a # 72 type jack knife but I wish we did...
Good input guys; any feed back is always welcome! One more thing, thank you for your service sir! I was raised by a dad, stationed in Guam in WWII, and flew many bombing missions over Japan in a B-29 Bomber, and lived to come home. Bless you pop. Good day..
Bobby P. CKCo., "Cutler for Ever"......
First off, Mr. Peckt. for short, shows us some old 70's combo card of a knife basically constructed like the Ranger. Unlike the Ranger with seperate bolster's, the 46 series is a shell knife. The # 4601, 4602, and the 4603 respectively...then a single card with our old # 4633, but on a three knife card was called the TP-333 set...
I wanted to elaborate a bit on bending the blades as I previously explained...
When the blades are half open and you strike the tang to bend the blade, it's actually hit more on the kick part of the tang. The kick? Well, this is part of the tang that sticks out a bit on the inside that "kicks" inside the knife when you close it. It falls against the inside of the spring which is called "the blade's walk". This is the portion of the spring that the blade rides on when opening and closing. A few thousand of these and many tips from the old timer's will make you a pro, if it's in your blood..
Mr. Jerryd6818, your knife knowledge is extensive and you seem like the kind of gent that would have fit in right next to me on my work bench! You sure know your Camillus line....
Like Camillus, Imperial and many other manufacturers, private labeling was a big part of our business, just like today with many consumer products...
Just to state for a fact, Colonial NEVER made a # 72 type jack knife but I wish we did...
Good input guys; any feed back is always welcome! One more thing, thank you for your service sir! I was raised by a dad, stationed in Guam in WWII, and flew many bombing missions over Japan in a B-29 Bomber, and lived to come home. Bless you pop. Good day..
Bobby P. CKCo., "Cutler for Ever"......
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Dear Bob
I am sorry I'm late to the scene.
But I'm sure you're reading this, wherever you are. You will be missed by all of the knife community here.
Rest in Peace.
I am sorry I'm late to the scene.
But I'm sure you're reading this, wherever you are. You will be missed by all of the knife community here.
Rest in Peace.
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Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
How rare of knife is it in the pic
Re: Ranger 3 blade by Colonial?
Keep Near the Cross.