Old Keen Kutter Knives
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Here is one i just found (in the house): E.C.Simmons 3 1/4" Congress Whittler, steel bolsters & nice old jigged bone. Might this have been made by Walden Knife Co. ?
kj
kj
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Roland, that looks like a K35277. Sellens says it was in the catalogs from 1905 thru to 1916, so yes, most likely a Walden made knife.
Dan
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Thanks Dan. Wow, 100+ years old, still looks good and works just fine.
kj
kj
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Super nice Stockman !
This one is not marked "E.C.Simmons". Who is the likely maker ? and what is the date range ?
kj
This one is not marked "E.C.Simmons". Who is the likely maker ? and what is the date range ?
kj
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Thanks! Keen Kutters are outside my comfort zone but I'm pretty sure this is a Camillus made Shapleigh. Sellens says it was made between 1939-1942. The pattern number has the 'K' underscored which I read somewhere is another tell that Camillus made it.kootenay joe wrote:Super nice Stockman !
kj
- Jason
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Nice knife, Jason! The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
Dan
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Thanks for that - there isn't a whole lot of Keen Kutter info out there. There's something I'm curious if you might know the answer to. After Simmons parted from Winchester in 1929, who made their knives until 1940 When Shapleigh took over and started with Camillus? I have two Keen Kutters I'll post later or tomorrow when I get home. Same pattern but one is Simmons and one is Shapleigh and they're identical. Without the tang stamp I'd swear they came from the same factory. The Simmons knife also has the horns.danno50 wrote:Nice knife, Jason! The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
- Jason
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Winchester continued to make knives for Simmons after the two companies parted ways. Camillus also made a lot of the Simmons Keen Kutters, starting sometime after the Simmons/Winchester split, right into the Shapleigh era. If you go back to some of the early pages of this thread, particularly page 11 and page 23, there is information posted by another AAPK member, msteele6, who has an extensive Keen Kutter collection.jxr1197 wrote:Thanks for that - there isn't a whole lot of Keen Kutter info out there. There's something I'm curious if you might know the answer to. After Simmons parted from Winchester in 1929, who made their knives until 1940 When Shapleigh took over and started with Camillus? I have two Keen Kutters I'll post later or tomorrow when I get home. Same pattern but one is Simmons and one is Shapleigh and they're identical. Without the tang stamp I'd swear they came from the same factory. The Simmons knife also has the horns.danno50 wrote:Nice knife, Jason! The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
Dan
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
A pair of K2203s:
The one on the left is a Simmons, the right is a Shapleigh. After reading through all the info given in this thread I believe both are made by Camillus. Sellens says that from 1921-1939 this knife was 3-1/2" long and grew to 3-7/8" from 1940-1942. Both of these knives are 3-7/8". Maybe this was a misprint in the Sellens book? Maybe the change in size was 1929 when they split and apparently shifted this pattern over to Camillus.
The one on the left is a Simmons, the right is a Shapleigh. After reading through all the info given in this thread I believe both are made by Camillus. Sellens says that from 1921-1939 this knife was 3-1/2" long and grew to 3-7/8" from 1940-1942. Both of these knives are 3-7/8". Maybe this was a misprint in the Sellens book? Maybe the change in size was 1929 when they split and apparently shifted this pattern over to Camillus.
- Jason
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Nice pair of knives! I would agree, both are Camillus made. Not sure of your reasoning above, Winchester continued to make Keen Kutters for Simmons following 1929 and there is not reason to assume that Camillus took over manufacture of this particular pattern immediately following 1929. Also, Shapleigh did not purchase Simmons until July of 1940. In 1940, both Simmons and Shapleigh put out catalogs.jxr1197 wrote:A pair of K2203s:
The one on the left is a Simmons, the right is a Shapleigh. After reading through all the info given in this thread I believe both are made by Camillus. Sellens says that from 1921-1939 this knife was 3-1/2" long and grew to 3-7/8" from 1940-1942. Both of these knives are 3-7/8". Maybe this was a misprint in the Sellens book? Maybe the change in size was 1929 when they split and apparently shifted this pattern over to Camillus.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this, below is a pic of the 2203 from the 1930 Simmons catalog, it is a different knife from your 2203s? It would appear that more than just the size of the knife changed between 1939 and 1940.
Dan
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
I did NOT see that curveball coming! Sellens' book lists the pattern from 1921-1942 and mentions the change in size but only shows the one image (of my knife.) With this additional info 1939-1940 for the Simmons knife is pretty likely. A shorter production window for this version also explains why you don't see many of them - something that bothered me when I thought it was made for 21 years.danno50 wrote:Nice pair of knives! I would agree, both are Camillus made. Not sure of your reasoning above, Winchester continued to make Keen Kutters for Simmons following 1929 and there is not reason to assume that Camillus took over manufacture of this particular pattern immediately following 1929. Also, Shapleigh did not purchase Simmons until July of 1940. In 1940, both Simmons and Shapleigh put out catalogs.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this, below is a pic of the 2203 from the 1930 Simmons catalog, it is a different knife from your 2203s? It would appear that more than just the size of the knife changed between 1939 and 1940.
- Jason
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
I have a question about old KK knives, before the "Wedge and Bar" tang stamp. They are tang stamped "E.C. Simmons St. Louis. Is all knives with the "E.C. Simmons St. Louis" stamp KK's?
Harold
Harold
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Short answer is an ambiguous, I think so? They continued to use the "E.C.Simmons St. Louis" stamp and also "Simmons Hardware Co" stamp after the introduction of the wedge and bar stamp.stockman wrote:I have a question about old KK knives, before the "Wedge and Bar" tang stamp. They are tang stamped "E.C. Simmons St. Louis. Is all knives with the "E.C. Simmons St. Louis" stamp KK's?
Harold
I have 3 KKs with the "Simmons Hardware Co." stamp. Two of them have a Keen Kutter etch. The other one is well used and if there was an etch (and I assume there was?), it has worn off.
I have 2 KKs with the "E.C.Simmons St. Louis" stamp. On of them has the Keen Kutter etch. The other one is well used and, once again, the etch has worn off, if it was there.
Dan
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Short answer is an ambiguous, I think so? They continued to use the "E.C.Simmons St. Louis" stamp and also "Simmons Hardware Co" stamp after the introduction of the wedge and bar stamp. Sellens has a drawing of a fancy scroll Keen Kutter etch, which he says (with a qualification on the accuracy of the dating) was in use from 1895 thru 1916.danno50 wrote:stockman wrote:I have a question about old KK knives, before the "Wedge and Bar" tang stamp. They are tang stamped "E.C. Simmons St. Louis. Is all knives with the "E.C. Simmons St. Louis" stamp KK's?
Harold
I have 3 KKs with the "Simmons Hardware Co." stamp. Two of them have a Keen Kutter etch (the fancy scroll one as above). The other one is well used and if there was an etch (and I assume there was?), it has worn off.
I have 2 KKs with the "E.C.Simmons St. Louis" stamp. On of them has the Keen Kutter etch( in a Gothic font). The other one is well used and, once again, the etch has worn off, if it was there.
Dan
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Here's one I just picked up - a Keen Kutter Pony Jack aka K733-3/4S
- Jason
Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Nice old knife
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
I found this picture in a box of old knives all rolled up in a cardboard tube. Sorry for the glare but I have this hanging in my “knife room” and get a lot of comments about it.
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
Hello killer, welcome to AAPK. Nice to see you here. I have quite a few good knives that once were yours.
kj
kj
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives
George has been a member here since 2015. He just doesn't post very often.
Charlie Noyes
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