Allen Cutlery Co. Newburgh, N.Y.

[Sauconian]

Not finding what I wanted on a dealers table at a recent show, I inquired if he had any Allentown knives. He said he had one at home, and would bring it the next day. Because I would not be returning, I pointed out another nearby vendor to show it to, and gave the second gentleman cash to complete the transaction.

Upon picking up the knife on Monday, I discovered the seller must have been, as my daughter used to call the grandchildren. "not a good listener." He brought, and my friend with the aging eyes accepted, not an Allentown knife but an Allen Cut. Co. knife. Hiding my disappointment, I took it home to see what I could discover about it.

John Goins, in his second edition, shows a similar knife to mine, and states that Allen Cut. Co., Newburgh, N.Y. was in business from 1917-1925. The knife he shows has a clip blade and bears a patent date of Jan. 23, 1917 which, along with the company name, is stamped on the handles. It is not tang stamped.

We all like to collect beautiful knives, but the beauty of the Allen, like the homely girl of sweet disposition, is not represented by a nice pair of handles. It has a carbon steel blade and great snap, open, close, and at the half stop. This is without a back spring, as there are only three parts, the blade, a sheet metal handle, and a rivet.

The tang bears on a tab, or flange, as Mr. Benjamin Allen called it in his patent application in August of 1916. This in turn forces the two handle halves to move out of parallel, permitted by a slot in one side of the handle which is covered by the large head of the rivet on that side. This causes the bend of the two sides of the handle, called the bridge, to twist and impart the spring action to the blade.

Not a knife I would have taken a second look at, the beauty is in it's simplicity, and the genius of Mr. Allen's design. Goins states that both Ulery and Shapleigh Hardware made knives of this type, and I just saw another rather newer looking one stamped Imperial, with a Girl Scout logo.

Mr. Allen was born in England in 1862, and was brought to this country about the same year. In 1920 he resided in Newburgh with his wife H. Estelle, and a 24 yr. old daughter Helen, who worked as a secretary for his firm. The patent number for his design is 1,213,138 and it has his original drawing as well as a desciption of his design.

Fran

[jonet143]

cool knife, fran. thanks for showin it. very interesting mechanics.

[PA Knives]

Fran,

Although not pretty by usual knife standards, the knife is well made. I think that it is quite unique. I have owned one and was turned on to the knfe by Mike L. He has friends that collect only these knives. the one I had was nice in walk and talk and actually well made. It fold for the handle that works the stop of the knife is neat also. In addition, i like the way the front pin moves up and down in a slot to work the closing. sorry it is not Penn related or Allentown, but a nice addition to a collection I think and will be talked about piece for the future. I beleive that knife World did a story on them a while back as well. You would have to check with mark Z to find out for sure. in this case "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and you should "be holding" that one for a while. NICE knife

I believe this is the patent for it.


http://www.google.com/patents?id=uCxGAA ... fe#PPP1,M1

[Sauconian]

David,

Yes, that is the patent I found. I thought anyone with interest in such things would know how to find it from the patent number, but thanks for posting it.

I realized how well made it was, that's why I had to learn more about it.

I just received my second copy of Knife World, and can't wait for the next one. Great publication ! I wish they had an index of past stories, to save us new comers from being redundant.

Fran

[edgy46]

The Knifeworld website has an index back to 1977. Hope this helps.

[lt632ret]

Allen Knives were made in Newburgh NY in fact they are the only knife company ever listed for being made in Newburgh. However there is a bit more to the story one of the principles who was involved with Allen was a fellow named Whitehead who had been a General manager with Walden Knife years earlier. Now this style of knife originally was made by the Eagle knife company and later after Allen by Walden knife as well as others. It was an inexpensive design and a take off of the old penny knife( using metal handles not wood. ). This knife under the same patent was made for the Ulery knife company ( which was made by Napanoch). Later Winchester bought Napanoch, Walden and Eagle. Allen went out of business.

This being said I am attaching a picture of a basicly complete set also a copy of an original ad for this company. Now if you look close you will see the names of the models of knife. In this era of being politically correct one of these has a name which was completely acceptable for that era but today in our country where free speech is a right if seems that if you exercise your right of free speech, you are branded a bigot ,if in the public eye you can lose your job or worse. I was as a peace officer called the white devil, honky , PIG , and much worse all in the name of free speech. For 26 years, I had friends who were spat on upon returning from serving there country I was told it was allowed in the name of free speech and free expression. As George Orwell said all men are equal but some are more equal than others.

I have no fear and will use the word or any word freely and will right now, thats right one of these knives was called a PRUNER, now I am a member of the Geezer brigade, AARP, Hopefully Social Security soon and all that goes with it. In my society you just do not call someone a pruner, you know someone who must up there daily fiber (prunes) intake for a daily bowel movement . No sir you just do not accuse someone of that without proof anymore than you would tell them they are full of s.... Which by the way is how I feel about anyone who attempts to change history by censoring it or free speech. LT

[jonet143]

cool history LT. after all a spade is a spade. i have copies of those ads as well and got a kick out of the open use of descriptive terms.

[Sauconian]

Thanks for the additional history Richard.


I prefer mission figs myself, but I don't see that pattern listed.



Fran

P.S., LT, While searching for Allen's knife patent, I noticed another granted to a Benjamin Allen that was for a method to plate steel with brass. I didn't follow up on that. Could it have been the same Allen ? Have you seen any brass plated Allen knives ?

[muskrat man]

Very cool Fran. I have been searching for one in the hawkbill version as shown in LT's pic number MVC-053S

they are hard to find, I have been looking for a while now.

[Rusty1]

Very different looking knife, great history also, simple design which works. nice additon to the collection Fran.

Rusty1

[Sauconian]

Rusty1, What are you doing here ?

Shouldn't you change your location from Easton to the U.K. ?

Missed you at Allentown today, but maybe you can go knifing with S.K.

Hope you're having a grand time !

Fran

[Rusty1]

I thought that may surprise you Fran! My Son has just bought a computer, so I just had to peak at AAPK.
Would of liked to of gone to the Allentown show, I'm sure I will be at the next one.
I'm not sure if there is anything going on over here about now regarding knife shows, maybe s-k would know.

Rusty1

[9ball]

Good eye Sauconian and lesson there Lt632ret,

Free speech and to own private property are a few of the rights we have left.......or Right?

Imperial used this design on some of their Official Boy & Girl Scout mess kit knives. That was in the 1950's and later. The early one's were USA made. The last one's that came out were made in Korea.

I know I have gotten off topic on this, so.......I like to gulp down generic Metamucil mixed with well water myself.

9ball

[galvanic1882]

Fran here is the few that I have wish, I had all the patterns. The box is the only one I have ever seen!!

[Sauconian]

Welcome back Mike !

Cool, you have a spear, and one o' them pruners !

I think I know where there's a sheepfoot.

Fran

[lt632ret]

I have posted some pics of the items we have been talking about and perhapes we can discern some more on what there history is. Eagle as I said made this type of knife . Allen had a patent . Then Wallkill River made them in fact they helped put NYK out of business because they were part of the cheapened line of Wallkill Kill river knives produced by NYK to compete with imports . The regular NYK line while a high quality product could not compete ( Sound familiar, nothing changes ) especially our own stupidity. Oh oh I better not veer off the subject or I will never get this all said. Nap as I mentioned made them as Ulery under the Allen patent. ( I believe one of the ones in the original pic I posted was a Ulery ). As was pointed out later they were made as scout knives . I posted a pic of one i have in a display of scout knives I did not take it out some of these cases can take an hour to get back together. I believe it is an imperial.

Now moving on you will notice many of the variations of these wrap around handle fold over style knives were made by G Schrade during the period that he was in his last business venture G Schrade Knife company. G Schrade was always looking for better but mainly less expensive ways to make knives. The Wire knife ( see pic for example ) the fold over and the pullball automatic were examples of attempts to make less expensive knives. Schrade realized that this was necessary in order to compete. He made this style of knife with celluloid handles and without as advertisers. and with bottle openers as souvenir knives ( see pics). He also made the large hunting fishing model ( with a lock ) this knife was continued in the line even after Schrades son sold out to Boker ( A long time pre WWI friend to the Schrade family ). Autos were the main stay of G Schrade marketed under the PRESTO line when Geo died and these were outlawed the company sold to boker.

The Geo Schrade scout mess utensil line was first marketed as a wire knife group than later the wrap around version was used. So now lets complete the circle remember Whitehead ( A principle in the the Allen venture and affialiated with Walden knife early on ). Well he was the one who found G Schrade in Brooklyn in around 1890 when he ran a patent prototype manufacturing shop. ( ie you had an invention and needed a working model to submit to the patent office Schrade built it ) Whitehead talked Geo into coming to Walden to produce press button knives. Whitehead was the general manager who apparently fell into disfavor when Simmons bought Walden knife . In 1903 geo Schrade left Walden knife to Start Schrade with his brothers ( I will not go into all the reasons for that. ) In any event he sold his rights and patents to Walden knife. Now would it seem a coincidence that Whiteheads next venture was this type of knife and years later the main proponent of this Style was Schrade. Whitehead was long gone and that patent long expired. You see it all ties together it is just the putting the pieces together which can perplex.

I also posted a picture of another knife ( the lower part of this display has this style of knives not nudes, this knife pattern with unusual subjets ). When ever I open this display I look at this knife she was a beautiful woman with an allure I have never seen equaled. She was of course Maryln Monroe. LT

[jonet143]

thanks, LT!

[New_Windsor_NY]

This Allen Cutlery Co., Newburgh, N.Y. knife arrived yesterday.
No tang stamp(s), just the one handle stamp.

[KAW]

Looks to be in very good shape, NW... very hard to find... nice catch...

[New_Windsor_NY]

This Allen Cutlery Co., Newburgh, N.Y., Pat. Jan 23 1917,
single blade pocket knife arrived today. Tang & handle
stamped. It will make a great companion to my other
Allen Cutlery Co. knife.

[lt632ret]

Here is my display of a complete set of Allens and original advertisment. Sorry the pic is not better. Regards LT

[New_Windsor_NY]

Hi LT. I saw the pics of your collection in this thread.
Very, very impressive. It's your "fault" that I have
these 2 particular knives. I didn't know Allen Cutlery
even existed, let alone in Newburgh (and I lived in New
Windsor 18 years), until I read your book. So I went
looking and found the 2, previously posted knives (so far).

[lt632ret]

They are around usually at a good price. while these were made under Allen. basicly the same knife was made under Ulery produced by Napanoch. Also Walden knife made this style. One of the big wheels at Allen had been or later was with Walden knife and introduced it to there line. Times were different then and what was normal then is rightly considered taboo now, Notice the large folder advertised in the ad on the bottom right. That model was sold under the name of the NIGGER CHASER, Certainly not a term that is acceptable and I mention it with an apology and only to show what was then acceptable and is a part of history. There is a quote I try to remember " There is nothing new only history that has been forgotten " I hope no one was offended. LT

[New_Windsor_NY]

I'm not offended. It is what it is. I've read this whole thread,
top to bottom, more than a few times and just love the
history that you, LT, attach to the Allen brand & of course, the
other Hudson Valley brands. I am "investigating" the heck out of
Allen myself. I found this to be VERY interesting and it is from you,
LT (vintage).

Allen Cutlery Co Newburgh NY the only knife company ever from Newburgh, Catskill Knife company ( a red herring should not be listed was made in NYC and given a local name, like the Cornwall in the question example.) Cooperative Knife Co ( Supposed First name and tang given to Ellenville Knife then Ulster Knife CO by the original workers who split from Walden knife to form the new company. Ulster Knife Co, (Ellenville.) Walden knife CO, (Walden Walden Knife works (Walden.) same. Schrade Cut Co ( Walden Ellenville ). Schrade Walden Cut Corp ( Ellenville ) . Imperial ( original Prov RI then Ellenville ). Press Button Knife Corp ( Walden Knife Walden ). Napanoch ( Napanoch 3 miles from Ellenville ). Grahamsville in business for one year 10 miles up the road from Naponoch. Dwight Divine & Sons ( Ulster Ellenville ). Kingston ( Kingston NY Div of Ulster ). D & S Ultra Rare made for short period on machinery from Walden knife ( Walden). Ellenville Knife Co ( First real name of Ulster knife ( Ellenville ) . Electric Knife Co. Made be New York Knife made in Walden and the Newark NJ. OVB, HibSpeBar ( Hibbard Spencer and Bartlett, Black Diamond. Ajax, Hibbard, John Primble, All contracts made by Schrade or Ulster ( Ellenville ). Uncle Henry, ( Ellenville Schrade ). Honk Falls ( Napanoch ). Imperial (Ellenville). I XL Schrade for 4 years 76 till 80 Ellenville. Hammer New York knife Walden then Ellenville under the Ulster conglomerate . Schrade Wostenholm ( same as IXL ) . Rodgers Under the same IXL grouping (Ellenville). Keen Cutlery Co. Made by Napanoch first, then Walden Knife ( Keen Kutter ) then Schrade ( Walden and Ellenville ). Wallkill River Works ( New York Knife Walden ) cheap line that helped bankrupt New York Knife. Shapleigh Hdwe and variations ( Contract made by Walden knife then Schrade ( Walden and Ellenville ). Remington Napanoch originally then bought out Napanoch and move away however contracts made by Walden and Schrade now made by camillous. Parker Frost ( Schrade ) .
Sears Roebuck Schrade and Ulster (Ellenville). Kon Kav ( Schrade Ellenville ). Russel R & Arrow ( Schrade ). A G Russell Schrade (Ellenville.) Warwick Knife, Tied up witH New York Knife ( might also have been made in Warwick ). Orange Cut Co. In business for on year made knives on machinery acquired from Walden knife when it closed by employees trying to make a go of it ( Walden) in a garage ( which is still there today there are not knives in oit I have looked ). Nagle Reblade Poughkeepsie NY Kipsi Kut Poughkeepsie NY.Co O knife company ( I believe was the same as Orange.). New York knife Mattewan NY now called Beacon then Walden. Wardlow original English then made by New York Knive perhapes when the Tarriffs made English knives to expensive. For whatever reason they were also made in Walden.

[New_Windsor_NY]

Here is the parts diagram for an Allen Cutlery Co. pocket knife.

Click on the link to see the patent application.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=uCxGAA ... fe#PPP1,M1