Because of current bid I must issue a warning!

[Robo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-40-CASE-X ... 4902.l9144

I'm not getting a good read on this one so...

I'm going to ask the tang stamp experts and the shield stamp experts to weigh in here straight off the bat. I tend to second guess myself when it comes to spotting counterfiet stamps in pictures which can distort. In this instance you'd have to have the knife in hand and a jewlers loop to see if this was the Tested era shield stamp that looked like an XX era shield stamp only comprised with a series of short lines making up the letters instead of the XX era's shield stamp where the letters are made of one continuous line. (See Witcher, "Counterfieting Antique Knives")

The tang stamp looks a little too perfect on this one but, again, there are members here with more experience recognizing these from pictures.

Also, I own both original medium toothpicks made by or contracted to others by S&M and I also own a couple Blue Grass versions made in the 80s-90s. They are all high quality knives. The only difference really is the the blade finish. The older ones have that wonderful old look where fine vertical lines show under the high polish. The blade on the knife here looks more like the high polish on the later era (80s-90s) Queen/Bluegrass knives.

Finally. Correct me if I'm wrong. But you don't see too many contractors fitting the company shield on knives going to CASE. So this might be another reason to question the legitimacy of this knife


Of course the glaring POTENCIAL problem is this isn't Case's factory made 61094. But this handle die which I'm 99% sure was made by Schatt & Morgan and later Queen/Blue Grass was a very popular contract knife. A bunch of Wholesale Hardware Companies and jobbers in c 20s-30s contracted these knives with their house brand stamped on them. I've also see examples of NYK Co, Cattaraugus, and Case Tested contract knives made from this handle die that appear to be legit--but in these examples I'm also going by pictures and not examples in hand.

Bidding on this knife is now over 500.00. The seller doesn't mention the fact that this knife--if it is a legit--is a contract knife; but many sellers either don't know or refrain from confusing potential buyers with too many details. Offering a box not specific to the knife being sold is completely legit but can also be a ploy to distract buyers in our box happy era.

[knifeaholic]

To me, the posted knife is an "across the room" fake.

[btrwtr]

It is a counterfeit knife.

[kootenay joe]

Maybe an 'across the room fake' for those who know Case knives but not so obvious to someone who does not collect Case. In situations like this, i check the seller's FB to see what knives he has sold, the prices and then try to 'read between the lines' of comments posted by buyers. But it seems ebay has changed the FB page ? The item sold is not stated, nor are prices, so i cannot learn much from his FB pages.
He has 3 other high value Case knives listed that look legit to the untrained eye. If he has more than 1 fake Case knife then it is more likely he knows they are not correct.
kj

[btrwtr]

This seller keeps all his listings private. That is why you can't see the items or prices sold. Private listings seem to be a trend with sellers that want to protect themselves from being exposed as crooks. Certainly not all sellers that keep listings private are playing this game but I do believe it is a trend used by some sellers of spurious goods.

The other knives he has listed the time of this post look to be legitimate.

The knife in this post is an "across the room fake" not because it is a Case knife but because it is a fake knife. The brand is somewhat irrelevant. No need to scrutinize the stamp. The overall look of the knife, looks new because it is new, the squared cut of bone the at the liners, location and size of the shield are all bad signs. Ad to that the fact that 4 1/4" toothpicks have been largely faked in variety stamps over the past 30 years.

[rea1eye]

Looks like a red flag in keeping your feed back sold listings in private.

Bob

[Robo]

Perhaps someone can explain the "Private Listing" option further. I don't understand why every bid on this knife says "Private Listing- Bidders Identities protected". But either way to me this seems like a bidder option not a seller option.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[kootenay joe]

Quote: "the squared cut of the at the liners,"
Wayne do you mean square cut of the handle pieces ?
kj

[btrwtr]

Quote: "the squared cut of the at the liners,"
Wayne do you mean square cut of the handle pieces ?
kj

KJ I had inadvertently left the word bone out of my post. I went back and added it.

There is little taper of the edge of the bone where it meets the liner. Rather than the bone tapering with a rounded edge as it meets the liners the edges are flat and rather square. Old knives are seldom made like this.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Wayne. That is what i thought you were speaking of but wanted to be sure. Yes handle pieces radiused to the liner edges makes for a more comfortable knife.
Was it in 1970's when Case stopped rounding the bone edges ?
kj

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks Wayne. That is what i thought you were speaking of but wanted to be sure. Yes handle pieces radiused to the liner edges makes for a more comfortable knife.
Was it in 1970's when Case stopped rounding the bone edges ?
kj

From my observations the biggest and most noticeable change happened in the mid-1980’s. Here’s a link to a post giving some info about it. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65326&p=786995&hili ... ng#p786995

Ken

[Robo]

[quote=btrwtr post_id=793713 time=1581529660 user_id=1423
The knife in this post is an "across the room fake" not because it is a Case knife but because it is a fake knife. The brand is somewhat irrelevant. No need to scrutinize the stamp. The overall look of the knife, looks new because it is new, the squared cut of bone the at the liners, location and size of the shield are all bad signs. Ad to that the fact that 4 1/4" toothpicks have been largely faked in variety stamps over the past 30 years.
[/quote]

I'm afraid I may have been mistaken when I said this handle die--which I believe originated with S&M--was widely contracted to Wholesale Hardware and various jobbers durring the 20's-30's. I've been collecting screen shots of the medium toothpicks I believed to be contract knives. Now I'm thinking they're the fakes you're speaking about. Here are some examples, I'd appreciate your thoughts:

[btrwtr]

Hard to say sometimes what is and isn't correct and all fakes certainly are not across the room fakes as far as I'm concerned. Many times no more than a matter of differing opinions. The knives you posted all look more believable the the Case knife in the original post.

Looks new is new is all too often a common denominator with fakes. Of all the knives you posted I really don't like the NYK. I am not sure if Cattaraugus ever made a 4 1/2" TP.

I don't know where all the fake 4 1/2" toothpicks came from but I do know there were way too many of them on the market in mint condition in the late 80's to be believable. Many with different and obscure hardware company tang stamps. Not having any documentation of a brand and pattern along with the intricacies of construction, jigging, etc. gives a counterfeiter a blank pallet to paint on. No comparators.