British and Commonwealth Military Knives

[smiling-knife]

The basic army-issue clasp knife with marline spike and tin opener in the first part of the 1900s was the pattern 6353/1905. It first appeared in 1905 and remained basically the same until the start of WWII. The original spec comprised of stag scales. The first knife in pic 1 is an example made by Hunter Sheffield and marked with the Broad Arrow and I for use by troops in India.

Just before WWI, in 1913, the specs were updated. The scales were changed from stag to chequered horn. The three attachments to be made of the best 'cast steel'. The overall length closed is 4 7/8 inches with the spear blade 3 1/2 inches from kick to point. The shackle made from number 11 guage copper wire. These were the basic GI folder in WWI. Two typical examples seen in pic 1 made by Jos Rodgers & Sons and Frank Mills. Both marked with W arrow D; the War Department mark.



Next are three examples of circa WW1 knives for use by Canadian Forces. The first is the typical British 6353 knife made by Wostenholm, but marked on the spike with the Canadian broad arrow inside a C. The middle knife is the same basic spec made by Thomas Turner & Co but with metal scales. The handle is marked with M & D for Militia and Defense 1915. The last knife in the photo was made for the Canadian forces by Schatt & Morgan of Titusville PA. Beautiful bone scales on the this one and a nail nick on the can opener is different from the Sheffield-made knives.



While not an official issue knife, the jack knives with tin opener and bone scales were included in gift boxes sent to the troops during WWI. This example was made by Wade and Butcher.



Please feel free to add knives, cooments or questions. Thanks for looking. s-k

[jonet143]

great show and tell steve. very informative and great knives.

[johnnierotten]

Great looking old knives and great history ta boot!!

[smiling-knife]

Thanks for your comment guys... much appreciated. s-k

[Cope]

Steve can you shoot me an email? I had your email but lost it.

Thanks, Brad


CopenatorX@aol.com

[zorrothegreyblade]

It's been a while since I posted here, not had anything to contribute but I have been dropping by now and again for a look-see!

I have some family momentos from WW1 which ties in with this thread and which will give a flavour of the time, so may I introduce Archie?

[zorrothegreyblade]

Nearly forgot these!



Frank Mills "gift" knife.



Two by Rodgers, army and navy issue, the army pattern still being used untill the end of the 30's.



The replacement army pattern, bottom, a Taylors eye witness dated 1939.

[smiling-knife]

Thank-you very much zorro for sharing that aspect of your family history. It give the knives some valuable historical context. Thanks also for showing the change in pattern that took place around the time of the start of WWII. I changed the title of the thread so we can carry on from there. s-k

[Gunsmoke47]

Very cool knives and history Zorro! I love stories like this one.

[zorrothegreyblade]

By the end of 1939, the standard British army issue clasp knife was now the smaller patern, with a modified can opener



From the left, 1939 Richards, 1943 W&S Butcher, 1945 "Burma" knife by Thomas Turner, and a post war 1953 J H Thompson, which evolved into the modern NATO knife still used today. There were many variations on these standard themes, no marlin spike, no shackle, different scale materials, but these are the most common I am aware of.

The standard bexoid handled knife with marlin spike inspired many civilian copies.



From the left again, William Rodgers, Richards and a C Johnson & co with buffalo scales.



This G Ibberson (top) looks like it was made using burma side plates and springs, no WD mark so probably also civilian.



Another unusual one, this J Allen (center) has the early longer spear point blade with the later tin opener design, again no WD mark.



This is a 1940 J Clarke&Son, no marlin spike and flat scales, very little wear so may well have been issued to a desk jockey!



Finally, here is one I cannot get to the bottom of, it may not even be military, tang stamp PROPAT.18230/44 Sheffield, no makers mark. I suspect the mark to mean provisional patent, 18230, date 1944, which could make it a prototype far east Army or possibly Navy knife which was not adopted.

As usual with my posts, please feel free to correct or add anything, all wellcome, thanks for looking.

[jonet143]

thanks Z, great history.

[johnnierotten]

Awesome,Zorro!!

[gringo]

wow, how did i miss this thread?
fantastic collection zorro
the frank mills had me staring at the screen.

[zorrothegreyblade]

Thanks guys, glad you like em.

[greyelm]

This is said to be "L.C.SIMMONS KEEN KUTTER ST.LOUIS USA". It looks similar to the Canadian issue knife, I haven't received it yet so I can give any more information on the composition of the handle. Were these made by Keen Kutter and could it be military issue?

[Another Knife Collector]

Great thread! everyone has some excellant things to share!

greyelm, according to Levine's guide that Keen Kutter is a contract knife made by Camillus Cutlery for an allied navy either French or Canadian c1915.

My great grandfather served in the navy in WWI. I don't have any equiptment of his unfortunately, but I do have a great war photo album full of his. I'll try to post a couple pictures later if anyone's intersted.

Shown is an E M Dickenson Sheffield knife, I don't beleive it's military.

[greyelm]

Thanks for the information. I'm pleased that it is a Camillus contract knive as I collect Camillus knives. I eventually found the reference in my LG3 (I should have looked before I posted) and mine does have the checkered black fibre handles. I got it for $18 (USD) incl postage, for me thats a good price for a 90 year old knife.

I hope this thread keeps going, there are some interesting knives on show.

[philco]

Great thread!

My great grandfather served in the navy in WWI. I don't have any equiptment of his unfortunately, but I do have a great war photo album full of his. I'll try to post a couple pictures later if anyone's intersted.

I can't speak for the others, but I really enjoy seeing those old photos.

Phil

[Another Knife Collector]

Here's a few shots by my great grandpa Clyde C. Thomas. One shot even has knives in it. Pictures help imagine where some of those old knives have been! Hope you enjoy!

[Mossdancer]

AKC;
All I can say is WOW. If you have more photos please post, you can photo shop these and the resolution can be greatly improved. You have the makings of a terrific blog with a web site. There could be many variations. This appears to be U.S. Navy so as not to hijack Steves thread you might want to start your own.
moss

Edited to add: I wonder if the guy sleeping lived through the throwing. Did anyone else notice the chefs knife stuck beside his left leg.

[gringo]

" I wonder if the guy sleeping lived through the throwing. Did anyone else notice the chefs knife stuck beside his left leg."

i noticed the one by his neck...?

[Mossdancer]

Gringo:
Neat catch, I didn't even look on that side, What do you think was this real or posed? If real that sailor either was not very well liked or had cajones the size of watermelons.
moss
Edit for add: Is that a double ended pocket knife sticking over his right shoulder?

[Another Knife Collector]

I'm glad you enjoy them, I thought those would help picture where some of the knives here might have been. I'll post more later in off topic converstion as to not hijack such a great thread.

To get back on track here's a cute little knife, a Sykes-Fairbairn.

[Mossdancer]

Here is my Sykes and a Made in Sheffield Rope Knife.
moss

[George21]

Whats the purpose of the 'spike' on these knives? I got one today for a couple of quid. Having trouble reading the makers mark but will check back when I have it cleaned up a bit.

It definately says Sheffield on it. And perhaps... Venture or Adventure or something of the sort.

The can opener bit is snapped off but the majority of it remains.