M&G Coke Bottle History

[Pàdruig]

Good evening, folks.

I know there is an old thread pertaining to M&G's Queen-made large Coke Bottle, Gen. Custer's Favorite. Rather than asking my questions there, I hope you will suffer them here in a new thread as I am curious about the history of the pattern itself and where M&G comes in.

I have been studying the Coke Bottle pattern for the past few weeks, largely in the form of the large folding hunters or swell center hunters/jacks, and I've been curious about its history. It is a pattern that is found in somee old catalogs from the 1880s but with the references to this being a favored pattern of Custer's, it might indicate an earlier appearance in history.

That said, is the Custer reference simply a marketing ploy at the time or was there legitimate belief and/or documentation that Custer liked or at least used this pattern? I don't have a copy of the ad that the M&G Queen SFO might replicate but I do have a snippet of the pattern in question with the moniker of a "Oregon Hunting Knife" (I'm rather partial to that name...).

M&G Oregon Hunting Knife

The next pic is not the greatest quality and the knife is likely a smaller, barehead version of the large hunter but it still is of a Coke Bottle shape and is from an older catalog (1887?).

1887 M&G Kentucky Bowie

If there is any insight to be gained on this pattern and the Custer reference, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Old Folder]

Welcome to AAPK Pàdruig.
I can not help you with the history of the Coke Bottle pattern.
However, I can share with you the below picture of "Gen. Custer's Favorite Hunting Knife" from Maher & Grosh 1900 catalog that I have.
It appears that M&G only used Gen. Custer's name as an advertising ploy. I have studied and read much of Custer's (1839-1876) books and his wife Elizabeth Clift Custer (1842-1933) and never have I found any information concerning his cutlery preference or ownership.
If you enlarge the picture, Custer's (so called) hunting knife, you will see that: "It was given to M&G by a cavalry officer who had seen a score of years' service in the West." He never mentioned Custer's name.

In M&Gs 1929-1930 catalog, "Gen. Custer's Favorite Hunting Knife" shows up for sale again, however, M&G advertises it as: "For many years a great favorite throughout the West" with no other mention.

"Custer truly loved hunting. During his early days on the western prairies he began writing letters under the pseudonym “Nomad” to a sporting magazine of the day, Turf, Field and Farm. Between 1867 and 1875 he wrote 15 stories for the magazine recounting his adventures in the West. He also included many hunting tales in his memoir, “My Life on the Plains,” and in the hundreds of letters he wrote home.

An officer’s life on the prairie was often the picture of boredom. Despite the military mission, there was little time spent actually fighting Indians. While the foot soldiers and teamsters attached to a given unit had multiple jobs to do, the officer class enjoyed leisure time. Writing was one diversion for Custer, and hunting was an outlet for his pent-up energy.

Custer believed hunting was a practical preoccupation for everyone in camp, officer or enlisted man. Game also was a critically important food source for a perpetually hungry army. And, according to Custer, useful military skills were acquired through the hunt:

“To break the monotony and give horses and men exercise, buffalo hunts were organized, in which officers and men joined heartily. I know of no better drill for perfecting men in the use of firearms on horseback, and thoroughly accustoming them to the saddle, than buffalo-hunting over a moderately rough country.”

In those pre-settlement days the West was full of game, so Custer and his men took advantage of the situation."

[peanut740]

Good evening, folks.

I know there is an old thread pertaining to M&G's Queen-made large Coke Bottle, Gen. Custer's Favorite. Rather than asking my questions there, I hope you will suffer them here in a new thread as I am curious about the history of the pattern itself and where M&G comes in.

I have been studying the Coke Bottle pattern for the past few weeks, largely in the form of the large folding hunters or swell center hunters/jacks, and I've been curious about its history. It is a pattern that is found in somee old catalogs from the 1880s but with the references to this being a favored pattern of Custer's, it might indicate an earlier appearance in history.

That said, is the Custer reference simply a marketing ploy at the time or was there legitimate belief and/or documentation that Custer liked or at least used this pattern? I don't have a copy of the ad that the M&G Queen SFO might replicate but I do have a snippet of the pattern in question with the moniker of a "Oregon Hunting Knife" (I'm rather partial to that name...).


M&G1 (2).jpg


The next pic is not the greatest quality and the knife is likely a smaller, barehead version of the large hunter but it still is of a Coke Bottle shape and is from an older catalog (1887?).


M&G1887a - Copy.png


If there is any insight to be gained on this pattern and the Custer reference, I would greatly appreciate it.

Dan answered your question as well as I could.I have no idea if Custer carried or used a similar knife.He died in 1876,and M&G started business in 1877,so we know for sure he didn't carry a M&G.
I would imagine Custer was a well know name for many years after he was killed and M&G used that to market knives.
The Kentucky Bowie is 3 3/4" small bare head cokebottle.M&G used a lot of state names on their etches.Colorado Stockman,Montana Mountaineer,Ohio Farmer,Texas Planter etc.
A common etch on many different large cokebottle was "Daniel Boone" and " Forest King".I would say that M&G took the etches to a higher level.JMHO.

[Pàdruig]

Thank you so much, Roger and Dan, for the replies and the insightful information. Please accept my apologies for the late acknowledgement - being that I reside in the PNW, I've had my mind on other things with regards to a bit of smoke and flame.

I suspected that using Custer's moniker was simply a marketing ploy - he was quite the celebrity, especially after his death. It's been difficult to pinpoint origins of this specific pattern but everything that I've read up to this point has been that it is predominantly an American pattern and that it had some semblance of popularity in the late 19th and early 20h centuries.

[cudgee]

Welcome to AAPK Pàdruig.
I can not help you with the history of the Coke Bottle pattern.
However, I can share with you the below picture of "Gen. Custer's Favorite Hunting Knife" from Maher & Grosh 1900 catalog that I have.
It appears that M&G only used Gen. Custer's name as an advertising ploy. I have studied and read much of Custer's (1839-1876) books and his wife Elizabeth Clift Custer (1842-1933) and never have I found any information concerning his cutlery preference or ownership.
If you enlarge the picture, Custer's (so called) hunting knife, you will see that: "It was given to M&G by a cavalry officer who had seen a score of years' service in the West." He never mentioned Custer's name.

In M&Gs 1929-1930 catalog, "Gen. Custer's Favorite Hunting Knife" shows up for sale again, however, M&G advertises it as: "For many years a great favorite throughout the West" with no other mention.


img258.jpgcuster_inset1.jpg


"Custer truly loved hunting. During his early days on the western prairies he began writing letters under the pseudonym “Nomad” to a sporting magazine of the day, Turf, Field and Farm. Between 1867 and 1875 he wrote 15 stories for the magazine recounting his adventures in the West. He also included many hunting tales in his memoir, “My Life on the Plains,” and in the hundreds of letters he wrote home.

An officer’s life on the prairie was often the picture of boredom. Despite the military mission, there was little time spent actually fighting Indians. While the foot soldiers and teamsters attached to a given unit had multiple jobs to do, the officer class enjoyed leisure time. Writing was one diversion for Custer, and hunting was an outlet for his pent-up energy.

Custer believed hunting was a practical preoccupation for everyone in camp, officer or enlisted man. Game also was a critically important food source for a perpetually hungry army. And, according to Custer, useful military skills were acquired through the hunt:

“To break the monotony and give horses and men exercise, buffalo hunts were organized, in which officers and men joined heartily. I know of no better drill for perfecting men in the use of firearms on horseback, and thoroughly accustoming them to the saddle, than buffalo-hunting over a moderately rough country.”

In those pre-settlement days the West was full of game, so Custer and his men took advantage of the situation."

Fantastic and interesting post, i really enjoyed reading it. Thanks for posting. You have a good week.

[Old Folder]

Your very welcome Dylan and cudgee.