Another Kutmaster turned Case

[Mumbleypeg]

This fake looks like Kutmaster blades cold re-stamped. You can see from the picture that the master blade tang has been “shaved”. Not sure where the frame originated but it’s not Case either. Counterfeiters like to use Kutmasters because of the long pull master clip blade. They’re not the same as a Case clip, but the easier give away is the “hump” curve on the Kutmaster spey spine. The spine on a Case spey is straight.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-CASE-XX-TE ... SwJVZgFxzl

Ken

[olderdogs1]

I saw that Ken, Seems to be fooling a few people though

Tpm

[OLDE CUTLER]

This fake looks like Kutmaster blades cold re-stamped. You can see from the picture that the mast blade tang has been “shaved”. Not sure where the frame originated but it’s not Case either. Counterfeiters like to use Kutmasters because of the long pull master clip blade. They’re not the same as a Case clip, but the easier give away is the “hump” curve on the Kutmaster spey spine. The spine on a Case spey is straight.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-CASE-XX-TE ... SwJVZgFxzl

Ken

Ken, that second picture looks like one of mine. The stamp on the ebay knife pictured does look suspicious, as do the other things you pointed out.

[1967redrider]

I saw that Ken, Seems to be fooling a few people though

Tpm

You know what they say about a fool and his money. Those stamps should be a dead giveaway.

[Mumbleypeg]

Ken, that second picture looks like one of mine. The stamp on the ebay knife pictured does look suspicious, as do the other things you pointed out.

That is indeed one of yours. Since I don’t have a Kutmaster stockman that old to use as an example I swiped the picture from one of your posts. Sorry, I should have given you credit. It was the first one I found when I did a “search” for Kutmaster stockman.. The Case example is the same, found it through AAPK search also - I think it was one of Larry’s posts.

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

Ken, that second picture looks like one of mine. The stamp on the ebay knife pictured does look suspicious, as do the other things you pointed out.

That is indeed one of yours. Since I don’t have a Kutmaster stockman that old to use as an example I swiped the picture from one of your posts. Sorry, I should have given you credit. It was the first one I found when I did a “search” for Kutmaster stockman.. The Case example is the same, found it through AAPK search also - I think it was one of Larry’s posts.

Ken

No problem, I have several of the Kutmaster stock knives. One of my favorites and glad to be able to show a "real" one.

[TPK]

Good information Ken! Thanks for sharing!

[Mumbleypeg]

Can’t believe bidding on the piece of crap being represented as a Case Brothers RM347 is up to $434. No wonder there are so many counterfeiters! Where do the fools bidding on this come from?

Ken

[OLDE CUTLER]

Can’t believe bidding on the piece of crap being represented as a Case Brothers RM347 is up to $434. No wonder there are so many counterfeiters! Where do the fools bidding on this come from?

Ken

One of many people today with more dollars than cents or sense.

[NewguyBob]

I'm one of those bidders. And this morning it's up to $455. I'm new to this high end knife thing . And thanks to you veterans, I stopped bidding .
I did contact the seller . He claims the knife was purchased from and estate , and it's legit .
This was my first attempt to own anything older than 40 to 64 case xx . Most of my collection is the ten dot pre 1980 variety.
So , thanks for having me here . Maybe I won't be a dummy with to much money after a while with you kind folks .

[doglegg]

I'm one of those bidders. And this morning it's up to $455. I'm new to this high end knife thing . And thanks to you veterans, I stopped bidding .
I did contact the seller . He claims the knife was purchased from and estate , and it's legit .
This was my first attempt to own anything older than 40 to 64 case xx . Most of my collection is the ten dot pre 1980 variety.
So , thanks for having me here . Maybe I won't be a dummy with to much money after a while with you kind folks .

We've all been there at some time or the other. Glad you were saved from this one. And welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you.

[Mumbleypeg]

I'm one of those bidders. And this morning it's up to $455. I'm new to this high end knife thing . And thanks to you veterans, I stopped bidding .
I did contact the seller . He claims the knife was purchased from and estate , and it's legit .
This was my first attempt to own anything older than 40 to 64 case xx . Most of my collection is the ten dot pre 1980 variety.
So , thanks for having me here . Maybe I won't be a dummy with to much money after a while with you kind folks .

Welcome to AAPK. I notified the seller also, as soon as I saw it. I never received a reply. Don't know what buying it from an estate sale has to do with it being authentic but I assure you it is not.

If you're going to play in the deep end of the Case pool you should learn to swim first. You can learn a lot from the posts here on AAPK's counterfeit watch. Any time you have a question, just ask.

Ken

[NewguyBob]

Thank you for the welcome . Very happy to stumble across this when I did .
I've got a lot of reading to do !

[jwwood]

Did the Tested era Case knives have the brass liners and pins like the one we're discussing?

[Mumbleypeg]

Did the Tested era Case knives have the brass liners and pins like the one we're discussing?

Yes and no, depending on the pattern. A Case stockman like the 47 pattern being discussed is a higher end pattern and would have had nickel silver liners. (The 47, and 047, are one of my favorite patterns. I can’t recall ever seeing a pre-1980s 47 or 047 pattern stockman having brass liners.) Some of the less expensive patterns like the Barlows would have brass. Occasional exceptions may be seen, like knives made during WWII, many of them had iron bolsters and liners (brass was needed for more important things as was copper which is a major component of nickel silver).

BTW although the seller’s description says it’s Tested, the knife being discussed is stamped Case Brothers. In which case an authentic one may have had iron liners, which were used on many pre-Tested knives. In any case it would not likely have been brass.

Those are my observations. Interested to see what the experts say.

Ken

[olderdogs1]

I have handled a lot of old Case knives so here is my analysis. I personally have never seen a Case Bros 47 pattern. Not saying it was never made but sure never saw one. A lot of things stand out with the OP knife. 1st he says the handles are Christmas Tree and sites RM which stands for RED MOTTLED. The RM handles do resemble Christmas tree but there is definitely a difference. The handles on the OP knife are definitely newer era that a Case Bros knife would have. Others have commented on the frame being wrong which is true as well. The stamps on the knife are typical of Fake Case Bros stamps. Nothing about them looks authentic. A Case Bros knife is a Tested knife as they were the original company that started and patented the mark. Not to be confused with the Tested era of course which was 1920-40. The OP knife qualifies under none of the categories except COMPLETE FAKE. Ebay seems full of these and frankly I see people posting on Facebook pictures of knives they have just acquired and plan to keep that are not authentic as well. I don't point it out unless asked as I don't feel it is my place if not asked. I wish I had an answer as to how to put a stop to it but I am afraid I don't. Joining this site and educating ones self by reading a lot of knife books and handling a lot of old knives is about the best one can do.

Tom

[Mumbleypeg]

Auction ended. Some fool got fleeced for $810. Wish there was a way to prosecute these crooks - it’s the same as theft.

Ken

[knifeaholic]

Case Brothers did make a 47 pattern, but it was a 4" square bolstered stockman pattern, similar to a Case 92 pattern. They never (as far as I know) made a round bolstered 4" stockman like the Case 47.

Case Brothers and WR Case & Sone used similar pattern numbering but not all identical in terms of the handle die codes.

Case Brothers did use some celluloid (they referred to it as Pyralin), but never in "Christmas Tree"...they used it in some fairly plain colors.

Three other things to look for in fake Case Brothers knives (things that Case Brothers never did, but commonly seen on Case Brothers fakes):

#1 - Case Brothers never marked pattern numbers on their knives.

#2 - Case Brothers never used any shield with the word CASE - they only used plain blank shields.

#3 - Case Brothers never used the "Tested XX in a circle" stamp on small blades - that was only used later by WR Case & Sons after they acquired the
TESTED XX trademark.