All About Pocket Knives

Quick Steel wrote:If you hear that an armed loony has just entered your child's school, do you want to know there are some armed good guys always on the premises? [security, or police, competent civilians (ex military volunteers, the principal, the coach etc.) Or do you pray that dear Miss Pendergast the secretary will distract the loony until the police arrive?

Without armed good guys on the premises we have nothing but a building full of targets.

I'm with you Quick Steel. There is absolutely no legitimate reason not to have a competent armed individual at the school. Some schools have that policy in place now. Despite the "feel good" aspect that some people might have, banning certain guns,restricting clip sizes,and requiring background checks at gun shows is not going to change anything. None of those things would have prevented this latest disaster. I'm not against any of the 3 things I just mentioned but the fact is none of them will stop the individuals who commit these acts.

Like most of you, I find myself having great difficulty not thinking about this subject.
I agree with a lot of whats being said. But I think I agree more with what FRJ is saying.
Willingness aside, I think we are a far cry from having armed teachers in schools. As topical as it is right now, I feel doubtful that, in the long run, there will be a great number of teachers giving urgent consideration to weather or not they should bring a gun to school. That aside, I think that the safety of a gun free zone is a ludicrous fantasy. were it that a teacher had a permit to carry a gun, should they be able to carry it at school? I imagine a scene where a teacher at the blackboard raises his arm to write and exposes the butt of a PDW holstered neatly in his trousers. I can't think of a single time during my life as a student when I wouldn't have found that absolutly fascinating. That in itself raises a lot of red flags in my mind about how that would affect a students perception of the need (or ability) to bring guns to school. Do I think that that teacher is making the school safer? Honestly, yes I do., but I also think that the consequences of that action are much more far reaching than people can perceive at this time.
Personally, I'm suprised that there is even such a focus on weather teachers should be able to have guns, when the practice of having a dedicated police officer or armed security officer at school is already becoming so widespread and (imo) is a much more effective way to provide the appearence and the capability of a deffensive strategy, without burdening the staff with a responsibility that they may or may not be willing or able to perform when the need arises. Not only that, but I believe it sends a less ambiguous message to students as well as parents. Im just thinking how I would feel if my son came home from school and said "Daddy, I saw Officer Tom at school today! He has a gun! That's cool!" or if he said "Daddy, Mr Thomson, my teacher, he has a gun! We're not allowd to see it, but I saw it."
Your reaction to that is totally subjective, but personaly, I feel more comfortable with Officer Tom.

I graduated HS in 76.. We had a teacher who carried a 1911 to school EVERYDAY.. We knew it and I am sure a few of the teachers did too.. Mr. D did not go any where with out it on his person.. I later bacame good friends with him and thats what he confirmed.. Never had any school trouble!! John

philco wrote:Coffeecup wrote:

"It is a short step, requiring only the correct circumstances, to go from "being prepared to take an active role in defense" to "having taken an active role in defense." Most teachers don't want to be someone who might do that, because it implies that they might be someone who has done that. Many find it uncomfortable to be around people who have done that, or are prepared to do that, in a school/educational context."

Jim can you expand on this a bit more. I'm not entirely clear about what you're saying, or perhaps the thought process you are explaining above is just alien to my way of thinking. Are you telling us that most teachers would avoid a person who is prepared to deal with a violent threat ?

In my experience, teachers--particularly in the elementary grades--would be uncomfortable with a peer they know is armed, because of what it implies. Most are a bit reserved with law enforcement officers in the schools, as well. I think there are a lot of reasons for this.

For most of them, actually being prepared to deal with a violent threat is outside the context of their experience. Their only knowledge or experience of actual violence has come as vicariously thorough TV and the movies, or from dealing with behavior problems in the schools, or as a victim of crime. I suspect the mindset for most of them is that "good people" aren't violent (I know this is true in many cases). They lack experience that would help them understand that "being prepared to deal with violence" is not the same as "actively seeking to commit violence."

While I've obviously not met all teachers, I have met a few hundred; only a few were military veterans. I've never met an elementary teacher who was a combat veteran of any war after Viet Nam, and only one or two high school teachers who were veterans of combat after Viet Nam. I suspect this may be a factor as well, I think many teachers lack the experience of knowing and respecting a competent peer who is also someone who has at one time been one who was prepared to deal with violence.

I got my introduction to this mindset when I worked as a para-educator prior to beginning my studies. I broke up a fight between about a dozen high school males in the cafeteria. There were at least four teachers present, and while they made sure their students were clear of the incident and safe, none of them moved to break up the fight. For several days, many of the teachers in the school were very reserved with me, or even avoided me. More than one told me that it was "not our job" to do that, to leave it for the school "safety officer" or the police. I later had similar experiences in other schools, and have heard similar things from others.

Just incidental to the discussion. I recall a school shooting years ago. The kid used a rifle as I recall. The shooting was shut down by the assistant principal who ran to the parking lot and retrieved his .45 from his car. The felon ran but was taken alive by the vp.

No one who does not want to carry a gun should be required to do so. No one who is not competent should be allowed to do so. But somebody, somebody, needs to be at the school with a gun ready to to do violence to the evil inside.

If teachers will not support that basic idea, they should be surveyed as to the type of memorial service they would like for themselves and their children.