Civil War era folders anyone?

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313 Mike
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by 313 Mike »

Thanks for the link to the Lincoln knife Dave, great info! Now THAT would be an idea for a true commemorative knife for GEC or Canal Street to put out...a remake of the Lincoln knife...I think I would have to save up my pennies for that one. ::nod::

Slim those are some dandies you posted there, love that swell center, looks very elegant...Knifenut those are some real treasure you have there as well, most impressive collection sir!

I sure do appreciate you all taking the time to share your pics and info, really great stuff...

Mike
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

I wanted to include descriptions of the various knives I posted but the (deleted)computer kept shutting down.I have a replacement on the way but it will be sometime before it is up and running.
So here are the descriptions:
First picture is of a Wm.Congreve quill knife ca 1840 having one piece bolsters/liners;stag scales with birds-eye rivets;match striker nail mark and a small piece of bone between the liners to act as a blade stop when shutting the knife.
Next is a George Woodhead pruner ca 1850-60.Woodhead was mostly known for his bowie knives and folders from him are very rare.I have two that I have found over the last 50 years.
Next is a relic condition folding dirk that I think is marked Greaves.Couldn't bear to just throw it away.
Second post: First pic is a George Wostenholm Celebrated Cutlery folding dirk with fancy guard ca 1870.
Next is an I*XL two blade jack of about the same era.Handles are beautifully matched and it snaps like a bear trap.I frequently use it as an EDC.Has a beautiful patina and stays razor sharp.
Next is another folding dirk with a locking blade.Maybe slightly later.
Third post:
A Samuel Robinson pruner ca 1860.Hard to find info about this maker.
Next is another relic knife marked Underwood 58 Haymarket London.Master blade is missing and has a chunk of stag gone but has a really unusual pair of scissors that slide into the scale along with a pair of tweezers.
Last is my first stag scaled knife I bought in the early 1970's.A Saynor marked W.Drummond & Sons Obtain Warranted.Beautiful smooth worn stag with one piece bolsters and liners ca 1870.

I have several more that I will dig out and post at a later time.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by Miller Bro's »

There are some great old knives being shown in this thread ::tu:: :D

Too bad there are only 7 people paying attention to any of it :? :(
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by orvet »

Ray, I love those IXLs, sweet, sweet knives!
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by slimpickins »

Glad you stuck with it on that posting Ray. Those are some incredible and historical knives!!! ::tu:: Slim
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by 313 Mike »

Yes definitely thanks for taking the time to post those, man...that IXL has got to be about the baddest edc ever! It's gotta feel great to peel an apple with that ol' beauty...plus you are adding more history to a knife that is already drenched in history, fantastic.

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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by Mason »

Miller Bro`s wrote:Thanks BH & Catt. ::tu::

Here is another one you won`t see everyday. This is a Sam Wragg folding bowie, 5" long closed, the pen blade tip is missing, stag handles with the inset discs that were popular in this era. Take a look at the thread with the steamboat Arabia knives and you will see many different knives with these round nickle silver discs in the handles. The bonus on this knife is the fact that the blade face is stamped with a scene of two dogs chasing a buck, hunting scenes and patriotic themes and slogans were common on these knives made in England for the American market during this time. Also note there is no kick or choil, it is flat with the blade edge extending well beyond the tang.

ImageImageImageImage
Nice old knife with uncommon ciphered blade. These were made for a very short time period in England in the mid 1800s. Thanks for the picture.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by Mason »

Very nice examples shown within this thread. It's a treat to see such rare old knives.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by Miller Bro's »

Mason, thanks for the compliment on my knife ::tu::

I am glad to see there are a few here like you that appreciate fine old cutlery, like what has been shown in this thread. The sad part about it is if you post a picture of say a 1950-60`s Camillus production knife, which they made millions of, and you have a slew of people getting all excited over it ::woot:: ::uc:: Post pictures of a mid 19th century hand forged folding bowie and members just breeze by without a comment or second look. I don` know why I waste my time posting pictures of these of old knives anymore ::disgust:: ::tired::
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by 313 Mike »

Hey now Dimitri!! Don't get discouraged my friend, there are those of us here that actually DREAM about knives like the ones you post....I most likely will never be fortunate enough to own one of the class of knives you've shown here, so being able to carefully check out, click on and enlarge the pics you and others are posting here is as close as I'm gonna get...so don't stop, keep 'em coming! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Here's a few more:
Aaron Burkinshaw 2 blade pearl(1 broken).
2 American Knife Co Plymouth CT and a Waterville Cutlery.The first knife's secondary blade is a brass folding ruler with an April 21 1868 patent date.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

And a couple more:
An American Shear & Knife Co and a big old Holley.
A 2 blade(spike secondary not visible)knife of an unknown pattern stamped with the word Barneria and a severed pig's head.The stamp dates back to the 17th century.The bird's eye rivets and pique work(inlayed pins)suggest a time around 1840.This work was only popular for about 10 years.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Kicked out! Let's try again:
My other George Woodhead folder & a Jonathan Crookes gunstock jack.
A couple of ivory I*XL's one with an 1870 presentation date.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by orvet »

Miller Bro`s wrote:I am glad to see there are a few here like you that appreciate fine old cutlery, like what has been shown in this thread. The sad part about it is if you post a picture of say a 1950-60`s Camillus production knife, which they made millions of, and you have a slew of people getting all excited over it ::woot:: ::uc:: Post pictures of a mid 19th century hand forged folding bowie and members just breeze by without a comment or second look. I don` know why I waste my time posting pictures of these of old knives anymore ::disgust:: ::tired::
When I first started collecting knives for purposes other than my next fishing or hunting trip it was in the 1980s while managing a cutlery store. I met Al Mar and got to know what a nice guy he was and Al gave me one of his knives. I started collecting numbered Al Mar knives when they came out & I could afford them. Slowly I started adding new Kershaw knives to the pile. When I left the cutlery business in 1992 I pretty much stopped collecting knives until I retired in 2004 and decided I needed a new knife with a carbon steel blade. I remembered Old Timers from the cutlery store and went looking on the Internet for an Old Timer, only to find out Schrade had closed their doors a few months before. At that point I was still able to buy new Old Timers in the local stores, so that is what I did; I bought a lot of new Old Timer knives.

After a while I encountered Old Timer patterns that had not been made for many years and Open Stock Schrade knives that I found attractive, but impossible to find or afford if still new in the box. So I began collecting old knives as well. Slowly my preference in collecting knives shifted away from the new knives to old knives. Now, I can’t recall the last time I looked at the GEC forum because it is mostly about new knives. The same is true of the Case forum to a lesser degree.

My point is that appreciation for old knives is generally an acquired taste, much like okra or grits – (ok, I know I have crossed a line there for some folks, but you get my point. LOL) ::facepalm::
My current preference in knife collecting is pre-WWII Camillus knives. As my taste on old knives becomes more sophisticated, and (hopefully) my pocketbook becomes deeper, (not likely), I will start collecting knives that are older than those I collect currently. Collecting is a progression for most collectors. It is a matter of being exposed to, and educated about these older knives before one can truly appreciate them.

If it were not for guys like you, Ray, LT a few others, we who are newer to collecting would never be exposed to these old beauties. Without exposure there is no education nor appreciation of these old knives.

SO…………. KEEP POSTING! You will build an audience! It is already happening, it is just a slow process!

And a big THANK YOU to those of you who take the time to take good pictures and post them and tell us about the knives, what they are and about the makers. You are teaching us and building an audience and a new group of collectors!

A special thanks to Ray who has been posting pics despite all his computer problems! Ray, I appreciate your efforts and I know others do as well! You have some unique knives in your collection! ::tu::
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by junebug »

couldn't agree more...OR SAID IT BETTER, DALE ::nod::
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by danno50 »

If it were not for guys like you, Ray, LT a few others, we who are newer to collecting would never be exposed to these old beauties. Without exposure there is no education nor appreciation of these old knives.

SO…………. KEEP POSTING! You will build an audience! It is already happening, it is just a slow process!

And a big THANK YOU to those of you who take the time to take good pictures and post them and tell us about the knives, what they are and about the makers. You are teaching us and building an audience and a new group of collectors!

A special thanks to Ray who has been posting pics despite all his computer problems! Ray, I appreciate your efforts and I know others do as well! You have some unique knives in your collection! ::tu::[/quote]

Very well said Dale. Knife Lore is the first thing I check whenever I log on to AAPK and always look forward to new posts in threads like this one about old knives. Living where I do the only opportunity I have to view knives like this is over the internet on sites like AAPK and I genuinely appreciate the efforts of everyone who takes the time to post them. To second Dale, thanks to Ray for perservering through his computer problems to post so many great old knives and also to everyone else who has posted her and in other similar threads. The extent of the collections which guys like Ray and Dimitri display boggles my imagination. I would rather have any one of the knives posted so far in this thread than a dozen new shiny ones.

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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by 313 Mike »

I have a question regarding these old Civil War era folders...The handle materials are all natural of course, considering the difficulties encountered in transportation and acquistion, what were the sources of the ivory, pearl, stag, etc used on these old knife handles? Was any of the stag from North America? What about the pearl or ivory? Where was that sourced? Did our domestic knife makers import their handle materials from overseas or were they able to find raw materials closer at hand?....Just trying to learn...thanks for the replies.

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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by orvet »

Mike, I can began to address that & let someone else finish.

Most of the ivory was elephant ivory, imported from Africa until it was banned about 1990 (if I have the correct date).
The hardwoods like cocobolo & ebony are imported as they do not grow here.
But I do not believe these were very common at the time of the Civil War, at least not with the average infantry soldier, who was a farm boy unless he came from a rich family.

Probably more important to remember here is that during the Civil War industry was not nearly as developed, especially in the South. I have read that the knives carried by many of the Southern troops were home made or made by local blacksmiths, as no doubt were many of the knives carried by Northern troops.
I have also read that most of the factory made knives came from Europe, primarily Sheffield.

There were no doubt, wealthy sons who went to war with knives more suited for show pieces (in their day) than for combat. In reality knives were mainly provided by the troops themselves, so I am sure they tended to be what ever they had at home that could be spared from the family farm and given to the son going off to war. No doubt many were kitchen knives or utility type knives adapted with some sort of sheath to safely carry them.

The beauties we see here (if carried in the war) were most likely the property of wealthy young men.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by tongueriver »

Miller Bro`s wrote:There are some great old knives being shown in this thread ::tu:: :D

Too bad there are only 7 people paying attention to any of it :? :(
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by AREMINGTONSEDGE »

Please and thank you! I have actually been keeping up with this thread since Mike started it. What amazing knives! ::drool:: ::drool:: ::drool:: .I havn't posted anything because I don't have any pictures to contribute, just admire from afar. ::mdm:: But really, a Big Thank You! to everyone for the knives and education provided. I might have two knives that fit that era I have to double check and get back with ya and you guys can tell me what you think. ::tu:: ::tu:: Rocky
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by AREMINGTONSEDGE »

Ok fellas, this is what I think I have but not sure for this era. Any education is welcomed! Thanks,Rocky

Just as a bye the bye, the wooden handle has a name etched on one side and it snaps like a dragon! If it were real sharp and I'm sure the steel would get there,It would need a warning lable! ::nod::
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Going to try a couple more:
A Brookes&Crookes ivory smoker's knife.Very thin master blade w/cigar piercer and folding pipe tamper.
An I*XL 4 blade jack w/sunken joints.Unusual feature is a straight nail mark on both sides of the master blade.Bought with a couple pearl fruit knives dating to 1860 although this knife may not be that old.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Couple more:
R.Bunting & Son half congress ca 1840.The small blade is NOT broken;it is used for cutting the end off a cigar.
A pair of Joseph Rodgers ivory scaled scissors with a 1" blade in each handle.The construction is such that each side is made as a single piece;the only thing installed is the blade and back spring.Circa 1880.
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Kicked out! Try again:
An unmarked 4 blade pen w/file worked liners and back spring.
A Ward congress w/pinched bolsters ca 1860
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Re: Civil War era folders anyone?

Post by knife7knut »

Last ones for now:
A Russell palette knife;Southington quill knife;and a G&J Allen knife ca 1840's.
An Unwin & Rogers ivory scaled w/broken master blade and folding mechanical pencil.They were mostly known for their knife pistols.
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