All About Pocket Knives

I don't get the great difference in the handles. Makes for interesting conversation.

tongueriver wrote:I don't understand why so many people think that this knife is some kind of counterfeit. Schrade, and other companies were happy to make substitutions of various kinds that did not quite fit the catalog pages, to make a customer happy. I think the knife is absolutely authentic, but heavily worn, cleaned and priced too high.

I can tend to be pessimistic about such things but there is enough about this knife that doesn't sit right with me that I am more likely to say no than yes when it come to being original.

Never seen or heard of such a knife before.
Heavily buffed. That in itself is enough for me to question a knife as being original.
Inconsistent handle wear and jigging.

Inconclusive as so many things are but I'm inclined to think Frankenknife before I'd say original. I'd be hard pressed to put anything more than money as a good user in it.

With a used vintage knife that is all original, have it in hand and you KNOW it has not been altered. You don't know because you have inspected every little detail. You know from just being in the presence of the knife. I cannot explain it any better but i am sure every experienced collector here has had this feeling or experience.
If a knife brings uncertainty into your thoughts then likely it has been altered. Not definitely, but probably.
kj

Definitely a legit knife guys, although with quite a bit of pocket wear on the mark side. Looks like the main blade may have seen the buffer too. I've got one just like it. Not a Navy knife but a fancier civilian version with the old pick bone jigging:
Eric

ea42 wrote:Definitely a legit knife guys, although with quite a bit of pocket wear on the mark side. Looks like the main blade may have seen the buffer too. I've got one just like it. Not a Navy knife but a fancier civilian version with the old pick bone jigging:

Schrade Navy_225.JPG

Eric

What I sed.

I don’t believe anyone has said a thing about it being counterfeit , just saying the knife had been monkeyed with to the point were it has to many red flags .
The newly posted example is a very nice knife and obviously original .

Mike

tongueriver wrote:

ea42 wrote:Definitely a legit knife guys, although with quite a bit of pocket wear on the mark side. Looks like the main blade may have seen the buffer too. I've got one just like it. Not a Navy knife but a fancier civilian version with the old pick bone jigging:

Schrade Navy_225.JPG

Eric

What I sed.

Great thread with a good 'lesson'. Most of us have been fooled by a skillfully reworked vintage knife. Here is an example of the opposite: an authentic knife that raised suspicions about it's authenticity leading to thoughts that it is a re-work.
Calvin with experience and a catalog picture and then Eric with another example, and much direct Schrade experience, proved it to be all original.
The 'lesson' ? I suppose is to keep an open mind and consult with colleagues.
kj

"just saying the knife had been monkeyed with"
To me, cleaning and/or buffing is not "monkeying". Most of us clean our old knives to some degree, even if very superficial to remove surface 'gunk'.
I see "monkeyed" as meaning parts swapped.
kj

Good point , monkeyed with was probably not the best word to describe the OP knife , cleaned to the point were it causes red flags
BTW my definition of “monkeyed with” simply means messed with and not in original condition .

kootenay joe wrote:"just saying the knife had been monkeyed with"
To me, cleaning and/or buffing is not "monkeying". Most of us clean our old knives to some degree, even if very superficial to remove surface 'gunk'.
I see "monkeyed" as meaning parts swapped.
kj

They are out there.

Gorilla with beautiful eyes.
kj

Great post with lots of good input. AAPK members have once again come to the rescue.

The knife Eric posted is a beautiful example of what I like to see in a vintage knife. It shows that such a knife was made and that the OP knife could indeed be all original. All in all I still don't like the OP knife or it's pricing. It has enough about it to keep me away.

Thanks to all that participated.

Eric's knife is definitive.

Charlie (Not The Canadian) Noyes

That cat on Ebay that is the purveyor of the O.P. knife is going at it with a vengeance, some of which are really nice, but the prices! Oh, the prices! I guess I will continue to prowl less-exalted halls.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/union_razor/m. ... 7675.l2562

tongueriver wrote:That cat on Ebay that is the purveyor of the O.P. knife is going at it with a vengeance, some of which are really nice, but the prices! Oh, the prices! I guess I will continue to prowl less-exalted halls.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/union_razor/m. ... 7675.l2562

He does have some nice ones Cal. If he gets $275 for that Empire easy open I may have to list all of mine.

Great knife Eric. The jigged bone on your knife is the type generally associated with the curved Schrade stamp. There are some examples like your that turn up from time to time with the straight stamp and examples like the one pictured here that show up with a curved stamp and a later bone. These are transitional knives and I have not been able to identify a definitive year where the change was made but it likely corresponded with another major event that was going on at the time. Around 1915-1916 Schrade reorganized. George Schrade officially left his post as president and Louis Schrade moved from treasurer to president. He made some major production changes. Schrade also opened up the Middletown plant 1917-1918. All three Walden manufacturers were working together to fill a huge navy order at this time. Although Walden held the contract. In 1918-1919 George came back from Germany and started making autos with challenge which triggered a lawsuit bought forth by Schrade cut co. George won the suit but if I recall challenge was using a curved stamp at the time. This is an abbreviated history naturally but your knife and the conversation here is very interesting. Also pictured here is a challenge version of the same pattern.

James, how have you managed to find these details on the early days of Schrade Cut Co. ? Are you thinking of putting it all together into a book ?
kj

KJ, George Schrade’s grandson put together a book about his life. Some of it is posted in Collectors of Schrade web site. It is very interesting. Also on collectors of Schrade are company news letters that have self written articles that contain great info. Also a gentlemen named string cooper wrote a history of Walden which is a great resource. Some dates vary which is typical for schrade I guess. I started my collecting with Schrade but for a while now have been collecting Honk Falls. Sometimes I’ll read an entire book just to find a sentence that gives a clue about Honk Falls. I use to think Schrade was difficult to figure. And yes I am putting together a collectors guide. When studying pocket knives many of us start with the knife and work our way from there. Studying honks forces you to take a big picture approach and study what was going on in industry, economics, and buisness. Kind of a top down approach to find answers. It is a lesson in history and how pocket knives fit in. When you look at pocket knives from this perspective things fall easier into place. People like Levine, Seargent, and Goins have done amazing work. These guys forgot more about pocket knives then I will ever know but there is more to learn and some of their info is incomplete or sometimes inaccurate. So I’m doing it the old fashion way.