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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:57 pm
by knifeaholic
Starting in the mid 70's for some unknown reason, some percentage of Case stamps had stamps that were larger with dots that were more widely spaced. While others from the same years were stamped with the more "normal" appearing stamps.
No one is going to fake a 78 stamp anyway. Not enough $$ for the trouble.
The only 70's stamp that is likely to be faked is a 10 dot stamp on some knives (or a nine dot for the Cheetah) but these fakes in my experience are few and far between.
The knife that is in question ('78 6232) is a fine knife, actually a rare "transition" knife. In '78, Case changed the 32 pattern from the old style 32 (3-5/8" closed with square tangs/half stops) to the new 62032 (3-1/2" closed with round tangs).
About 5,000 of the new 62032 tooled knives were made with the old 6232 stamp before Case changed the pattern number stamp to 62032.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:54 pm
by Mumbleypeg
Sweetpieces4you wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm
I came to AAPK not long ago to sell my personal property !! Mind my own business and offer some Beautiful Knives to the members here !! And selling is what I’m doing at a Alarming Rate !! But I did not come here to see my personal property put on display in a Counterfeit Room !!!
I want to Thank the gentleman ( Ken ) who went Far and Above to defend my personal property !! And I mean that Sincerely Sir !!
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
After seeing this !! I may have to rethink selling here and return to EBay which I’m sure wouldn’t be a Big Disappointment to the other sellers here
I have let’s say a few thousand Pocket Knives and Fixed Blades to Sell and I am in Control of who says and does what !! TY Again Ken for a Superior defense of my property and myself !!!
I wouldn’t think it was personal. It’s frequently encouraged here to ask questions if in doubt. We’re all here to learn, and we try to protect each other from incorrect knives. Most of us are continually learning. I’m happy to share what little I know (or think I know
). I’m glad you have a legitimate knife that was readily defendable. Had it not been I would have said so - whether it is here, on eBay or elsewhere.
If someone questions one of your knives I understand why you might feel it attacks your personal integrity. But even honest sellers can make a mistake occasionally. It’s the repeat offenders, making and selling counterfeits, who cause buyers to be skeptical of every knife and ask questions when in doubt. We should all, buyers and sellers alike, direct our anger toward those repeat purveyors of counterfeits.
Ken
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:46 am
by Dan In MI
Sweetpieces4you wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
I am far from expert, and working with a limited sample when it comes to Case knives more than a decade old. There are still many for me to see, and much for me to learn.
That being said, my comments were not intended as an attack against you, your wares, or your integrity. I'm sorry they came across in that manner.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:44 am
by Sweetpieces4you
Dan In MI wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:19 am
Ivoryman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:03 am
This 1978 Case stamp doesn't look right to me.
Even without grabbing my legit '78 Case Trapper for a comparison, it looks off to me, too.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:16 pm
by Sweetpieces4you
Along with this “Legit” statement and now your response of not owning many case knives older than 10 yrs old
in my opinion you should not be responding to, or giving your opinions to anything regarding knives !! In essence you have No Knowledge whatsoever regarding case knives !! Instead of postings and responses you should be reading and learning what this site has to offer !! And that goes for the original poster of my property as well !! I do however appreciate your apology !!!
I have no problem whatsoever in people asking questions !! But I do have a problem with posting a Legitimate knife in the Counterfeit area without asking me or someone with knowledge of Case knives ( and there are many ) about a certain item number before doing so
I believe that’s the way this should have been handled !!! Ask before posting, Not post then ask !! My Opinion !!!
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:34 pm
by Ripster
Sweetpieces4you wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:16 pm
Along with this “Legit” statement and now your response of not owning many case knives older than 10 yrs old
in my opinion you should not be responding to, or giving your opinions to anything regarding knives !! In essence you have No Knowledge whatsoever regarding case knives !! Instead of postings and responses you should be reading and learning what this site has to offer !! And that goes for the original poster of my property as well !! I do however appreciate your apology !!!
I have no problem whatsoever in people asking questions !! But I do have a problem with posting a Legitimate knife in the Counterfeit area without asking me or someone with knowledge of Case knives ( and there are many ) about a certain item number before doing so
I believe that’s the way this should have been handled !!! Ask before posting, Not post then ask !! My Opinion !!!
This isn’t the first time this has happened. Several other members have had there knives posted here ,with statements made. Only to find out the knife in Question is good. The way you handled this and your response was very well played . Agree with you that some folks should ask first,before posting statements that may not be accurate. It does feel like an attack on you personally when this happens,but don’t believe that to be the intent.
You do have some very nice pieces for sale
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:59 pm
by Maddogfl
I have found a way of avoiding counterfeits 100% of the time. I simply collect things that no one else wants and that are too cheap to copy. My hoard is all authentic.
Nobody counterfeits a Camp King!
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:04 am
by Reverand
Maddogfl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:59 pm
I have found a way of avoiding counterfeits 100% of the time. I simply collect things that no one else wants and that are too cheap to copy. My hoard is all authentic.
Nobody counterfeits a Camp King!
I am right there with you, brother!
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:28 am
by cody6268
Maddogfl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:59 pm
I have found a way of avoiding counterfeits 100% of the time. I simply collect things that no one else wants and that are too cheap to copy. My hoard is all authentic.
Nobody counterfeits a Camp King!
Same here. I mostly buy Camillus and Schrade (as well as Swiss Army Knives and German and American Bokers) that were produced after 1970 and have (usually) Delrin handles. I own one Schrade Cut. Co penknife in peach seed bone, an 881 in stag (which was incomplete; and leftover when the plant closed), and a 204S Electrician (which as usual, is cocobolo). Shell handles are my favorite users. Cheap, but solid steel. My favorite pattern is the Barlow. I now own 4. I like the Kamp King when it is the (older) pattern; which is smaller and not clunky. I just sanded down the bottle opener/screwdriver on one, and it will now fit a #2 Phillips perfectly.
The only "old" Case I even own is a green bone '40-64 6347 that belonged to the best friend of my great-grandfather. It is practically worn out (he ran the last active flour mill in this area and used that knife daily), but still perfectly usable. It shows 50 years of wear (he passed away in the 1990s, and my Granddad had purchased the collection; as he'd just gotten started collecting knives), so there's no way it's fake. I carry it every once in a while, but mostly for special occasions. I also have a Standard Knife Co. Peanut that came in this year's POS exchange. Full blades (and still great snap), but the knife had celluloid handles that had outgassed and were removed. Going to have to get it rehandled, and use Antique Pearl Kirinite.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:38 am
by Maddogfl
There is another kind of counterfeiting too. When and old established, trusted business, lays off its workers, shutters the factory and starts building their products in Taiwan, China, or Mexico, and living high on the hog off the glory of the past. Aren't they too are counterfeiting. It is not only knife makers. I have a Boker automatic coming in the mail tomorrow, made in Taiwan. It is a bit disingenuous if Boker then screams because I buy a knockoff from China, now isn't it? American businessmen have seem to forgotten that loyalty is a two way street.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:24 am
by Dan In MI
Maddogfl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:38 am
When and old established, trusted business, lays off its workers, shutters the factory and starts building their products in Taiwan, China, or Mexico, and living high on the hog off the glory of the past. Aren't they too are counterfeiting.
Counterfeiting, at least the way I interpret the term, is done with intent to deceive. I don't think that Schrade, Camillus, etc. production shifted overseas with deception in mind. "Trading on the name" is the phrase I use for such practices.
And since Cody mentioned Swiss Army knives, I ran across a listing for a "new" pre-1991 Swiss Army knife. It looked good in small pictures, but upon closer inspection, it was
painfully obvious to me that the master blade (and likely the scales) had been replaced. I've debated about contacting the seller and seeing what sort of response I get.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:18 am
by Mumbleypeg
Maddogfl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:59 pm
I have found a way of avoiding counterfeits 100% of the time. I simply collect things that no one else wants and that are too cheap to copy. My hoard is all authentic.
Nobody counterfeits a Camp King!
I understand what you’re saying and why. However my approach has been the opposite. I was the victim of a counterfeiter. At first it turned me off of knife collecting. Then I got mad - why let some crook/jerk ruin what I like? I enjoy learning so decided to get educated about the brands I want to collect, study them so I’d be able to recognize a legitimate knife and avoid the counterfeits. I have been burnt on occasion, and might yet again. But it’ll be a rare occurrence.
But y’all keep your philosophy of collecting Camp Kings etc. It thins out the competition!
Ken
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:56 pm
by tvic
Being new and not knowing the intricacies and fine points of identifying fakes, one thing I go by is of it looks too good to be 100 years old, I balk. I’m sure mint condition knives from the teens, twenties and thirties exist, but I just can’t bring myself to trust a knife that old that looks too good to be true. Sure I’ve probably missed some legit knives, but, then again, I think a little “patina” looks fine and eases my mind in the process. AND, I keep up with the counterfeits thread here - which I greatly appreciate!
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:35 pm
by Ivoryman
Here's one that I wondered about when I saw it. Stamp doesn't look right to me. Any Case aficionados out there know if it's real or not?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334149763190?h ... SwV35hQnPd
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:12 pm
by dlr110
Someone please correct me, but I don't think CASE used an oval shield with "raised" letters such as this one.
However they did used raised letters on the "bomb" style shield on knives from 1915 to around 1925.
iKnife Collector.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:47 pm
by olderdogs1
Knife looks good to me.
Tom
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 am
by Mumbleypeg
olderdogs1 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:47 pm
Knife looks good to me.
Tom
The knife being discussed, for posterity sake.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:54 pm
by Ivoryman
Check out this stamp. I looked at every Case stamp chart I could find, none look like this. Seems this era is fraught with them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334158800404?h ... Swh2thTVpC
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:13 pm
by Mumbleypeg
I put little stock in looking at tang stamps to determine validity of a Case knife. There have been so many different stamping variations used by Case over the years that I’m not sure any chart or even combinations of charts show them all. Here’s a picture of what appears to be the same stamp, shown on page 169 of Witcher’s
Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery, which contains 86 pages of Case and Case-related stamps, many of which are less commonly seen versions.
Best to look at other aspects of the knife first, and the stamp last. Case did make a 23046 pattern humpback stockman in the Tested era. There are some things I do and don’t like about this one but it could be the angle of the photography. Interested to hear what others think.
For posterity here are some of the sellers pictures.
Ken
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:05 am
by olderdogs1
As Ken noted it is hard to be definitive from pictures alone. I am not personally familiar with the particular pattern although the 23046 Tested is documented. I have owned the 3 backspring 46 whittler and they are similar. That being said I would tend to be a believer in the knife being authentic. Certainly not one you see every day.
Tom
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:14 pm
by OSCAR
Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:54 pm
Sweetpieces4you wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm
I came to AAPK not long ago to sell my personal property !! Mind my own business and offer some Beautiful Knives to the members here !! And selling is what I’m doing at a Alarming Rate !! But I did not come here to see my personal property put on display in a Counterfeit Room !!!
I want to Thank the gentleman ( Ken ) who went Far and Above to defend my personal property !! And I mean that Sincerely Sir !!
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
After seeing this !! I may have to rethink selling here and return to EBay which I’m sure wouldn’t be a Big Disappointment to the other sellers here
I have let’s say a few thousand Pocket Knives and Fixed Blades to Sell and I am in Control of who says and does what !! TY Again Ken for a Superior defense of my property and myself !!!
I wouldn’t think it was personal. It’s frequently encouraged here to ask questions if in doubt. We’re all here to learn, and we try to protect each other from incorrect knives. Most of us are continually learning. I’m happy to share what little I know (or think I know
). I’m glad you have a legitimate knife that was readily defendable. Had it not been I would have said so - whether it is here, on eBay or elsewhere.
If someone questions one of your knives I understand why you might feel it attacks your personal integrity. But even honest sellers can make a mistake occasionally. It’s the repeat offenders, making and selling counterfeits, who cause buyers to be skeptical of every knife and ask questions when in doubt. We should all, buyers and sellers alike, direct our anger toward those repeat purveyors of counterfeits.
Ken
I agree. Even experts can learn new things. Ask ! That’s why this forum exists. You can of course have opinions but DON’T jump to conclusions.