Are There Any BASEBALL Fans On The Forum?

[WillyCamaro]

Well here's a stat for ya mararkin' baseball dudes.
Jays Vlad Jr. breaks all time HRD record with 91 home runs . Watch out, were comin' for ya ….

[jerryd6818]

And yet he lost the Derby.

"Blue Jays star Vladimir Guerrero Jr. broke the Home Run Derby record for most home runs in a single round, hitting 29 dingers in the first round Monday night. Guerrero finished with 91 home runs, losing to Pete Alonso in the final who won the Derby.Jul 8, 2019"

[1967redrider]

Any comments about Houston's outfield camera spying on pitching signals given by the opposing catchers? I think it was used for the last 3 years.

[Mumbleypeg]

Any comments about Houston's outfield camera spying on pitching signals given by the opposing catchers? I think it was used for the last 3 years.

Stealing the opposing team’s signs has been going on for all of baseball history. I recall years ago when the Rangers accused the Brewers (Milwaukee was in the AL back then) of basically the same thing. The Brewers mascot, “Bernie Brewer” IIRC, was perched on his giant slide in the outfield (when the Brewers hit a home run he slides down it into a giant beer mug). “Bernie”, equipped with a set of binoculars, was alleged to be stealing the Rangers catcher’s pitch signs and signaling them to the Brewers batters. The Rangers manager Whitey Herzog went ballistic, and threw a memorable tantrum that resulted in his ejection. Ever since that game my wife has referred to the Brewers as “the cheaters”.

If the Lastros were in fact doing it, they just upgraded the practice to newer technology.

There are those who believe if it is being done by players and coaches it’s “all part of the game”, but if extras and/or aided by more than human faculties are involved it’s an illegal activity, punishable by public hanging!

Ken

[WillyCamaro]

And yet he lost the Derby.

"Blue Jays star Vladimir Guerrero Jr. broke the Home Run Derby record for most home runs in a single round, hitting 29 dingers in the first round Monday night. Guerrero finished with 91 home runs, losing to Pete Alonso in the final who won the Derby.Jul 8, 2019"

[Mumbleypeg]

If you have access to MLB Network, there are running the excellent Ken Burns documentary Baseball starting at noon CST today. All episodes back-to-back. Set your DVR.

Ken

[jerryd6818]

Sugar Booger. That's a pay channel.

[Waukonda]

If you have access to MLB Network, there are running the excellent Ken Burns documentary Baseball starting at noon CST today. All episodes back-to-back. Set your DVR.

Ken

Thanks for the heads up, I never tire of watching that series or the Civil War documentary. On a somewhat related note, the picture below represents a tidbit of baseball history.
My wife has been on a cleaning binge, inevitably, some of my "junk" became involved. Anyway, ran across this old W.S. program in my baseball memorabilia. St Louis is one of only 3 cities to play host to a W.S. in which both teams hailed from that same city. New York, of course, being one, the third....Chicago in 1906.

[jerryd6818]

Well, that's just neater than cougar poop.

[Waukonda]

Well, that's just neater than cougar poop.

It won't happen again in St Louis, but I have hoped to see an all Chicago series in my lifetime. The ChiSox are showing some seriousness about the 2020 season, and your Cubs still have the makings......who knows?

[jerryd6818]

Ya hadda bring it up, dincha. Just when I was getting well seated in my non-baseball mode.

All the rumblings I hear indicate a rebuild. They already have a new manager. We'll see what the next 2-3 months have to bring.

You're spot on. The Sox do have possibilities. Maybe this coming season but more likely 2021. They have some heavy hitters on the South Side.

[Mumbleypeg]

Wow! https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-sign-stealing-penalty.

Not sure I agree with this. Not familiar with all the details so maybe it’s warranted, but sign stealing has been going on as long as there’s been baseball. Heck we even tried to do it when I was playing high school ball.

I’m certainly no fan of the Lastros, but if MLB is going to do something like this I’m wondering if they went high enough in the organization? How much, if any, was team ownership involved?


Ken

[jerryd6818]

Sign stealing? I'm more concerned with how I'm going to get the new Cubs network and how much it's going to cost me. There are only six weeks until Spring Training games start and if I understand it correctly, they will all be televised. Could be wrong about that. We'll see.

[KLJ77]

Wow! https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-sign-stealing-penalty.

Not sure I agree with this. Not familiar with all the details so maybe it’s warranted, but sign stealing has been going on as long as there’s been baseball. Heck we even tried to do it when I was playing high school ball.

I’m certainly no fan of the Lastros, but if MLB is going to do something like this I’m wondering if they went high enough in the organization? How much, if any, was team ownership involved?


Ken

Ken,

I agree that 'sign stealing' has been going on for a very long time. However, this entire episode with the Astros is about "how" they were doing it. Here's the Reader's Digest version: They had someone in the center field bleachers during home games live filming every opposing catcher's hand/finger signals to the pitcher, then beating on a garbage can in the dugout loud enough for their batter to hear it, so the batter would know what pitch was coming on the next throw. The Astros had this down to a science and the timing was precise and accurate. It is suspected that the Astros were doing this in 2017 when they won their first World Series title. If it could be proven they were doing this during that timeline, I believe they should have their WS title stripped from them. I'm glad MLB and the Astros owner, Crane, stepped up and held those involved accountable. This is the way major league sports put a halting screech to these kinds of illegal goings on. Bravo Zulu to them.

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks for the details. Something like that can’t be kept a secret for long, given today’s player mobility. I had not heard how they were doing it, but I recall several years ago the Brewers were accused of having a guy in the outfield stands with binoculars stealing the opposing catcher’s signs and signaling them to the batter. So it’s not new. (Just saw that the Astros owner has fired the GM and manager.)

The “unwritten rules” of baseball were always that if in uniform on-field personnel (players and coaches) could steal the other teams signs, it is part of the game. When they start using technology even as simple as binoculars, and off-field personnel, it’s cheating.

Still not convinced team ownership wasn’t aware of it though. $5 million fine is chump change to those guys.

Ken

[1967redrider]

One of my Christmas presents, proudly displayed on our guest room bed.

[doglegg]

Wonderful to savor.

[1967redrider]

Wonderful to savor.

Yes, Sir!

Still basking in the glow of the win, it will probably last until the All-Star Break.

[fergusontd]

Cincinnati Reds going to the World Series in 2020.......and if you buy that! BTW sign stealing, been going on for years. There's cheating in every sport in some way! ftd

[WillyCamaro]

IMHO sign stealing is as much a part of the game, as is hotdogs and beer. That's one of the reasons why games are entertaining, it's all entertainment for peats sake, no different then reality tv or other sports for that matter. Before people try and fix that part of the game, they should look at cleaning up hockey, waaaay to much fighting for me to watch. Just my opinion .
Willy

[KLJ77]

IMHO sign stealing is as much a part of the game, as is hotdogs and beer. That's one of the reasons why games are entertaining, it's all entertainment for peats sake, no different then reality tv or other sports for that matter. Before people try and fix that part of the game, they should look at cleaning up hockey, waaaay to much fighting for me to watch. Just my opinion .
Willy

So, with your analogy, then I'm assuming that you were okay with the NE Patriots 'deflate-gate' football fiasco several years ago. I mean, if cheating is cheating, but it's "all part of the game", then QB's should be able to put whatever amount of air in their footballs to assist in their throwing distance...or whatever lack of air in a football does for them. Futhermore, with your analogy, it must have been okay for McQuire, Bond and Sosa to use PED's to "make the game exciting and entertaining" so that the world could see how many homers someone could hit in a season.

Sign stealing used to be when a runner was on second base, and he would 'see' the signals given and try to remember them to add to the collection of signs from different teams. Now, teams have gone all full-blown technology about it, which is cheating, illegal and basically saying they can't win or play the game without cheating. Makes no sense.

[wlf]

MLB addressed the issue before the 2017 season. Astros’ players ignored it and Hinch and GM allowed the players to continue.

I think at least the players and coaches should be stripped of WS rings and trophies. At least this token form of punishment. People will lie, cheat, and steal. That doesn’t mean it should go unpunished. If not, then everything goes spitballs and et cetera.

[WillyCamaro]

When you put it that way, ya, it's totally cheating when they use technology.
I was thinking of old school signal stealing, like what you said there. I don't follow football so I didn't know about that on. I don't know what "PED" means, could you educate me?
Sorry bout that , I stand corrected .
Willy

[Mumbleypeg]

IMHO sign stealing is as much a part of the game, as is hotdogs and beer. That's one of the reasons why games are entertaining, it's all entertainment for peats sake, no different then reality tv or other sports for that matter. Before people try and fix that part of the game, they should look at cleaning up hockey, waaaay to much fighting for me to watch. Just my opinion .
Willy

So, with your analogy, then I'm assuming that you were okay with the NE Patriots 'deflate-gate' football fiasco several years ago. I mean, if cheating is cheating, but it's "all part of the game", then QB's should be able to put whatever amount of air in their footballs to assist in their throwing distance...or whatever lack of air in a football does for them. Futhermore, with your analogy, it must have been okay for McQuire, Bond and Sosa to use PED's to "make the game exciting and entertaining" so that the world could see how many homers someone could hit in a season.

Sign stealing used to be when a runner was on second base, and he would 'see' the signals given and try to remember them to add to the collection of signs from different teams. Now, teams have gone all full-blown technology about it, which is cheating, illegal and basically saying they can't win or play the game without cheating. Makes no sense.

Exactly! If the runner can see the catcher’s signals to the pitcher, interpret them and in turn signal them to the batter (by clapping his hands, touching his shirt or cap, or picking his nose!), that’s all part of the game. Same for bench players sitting in the dugout and stealing the opposing coach’s signs to base runners. Always been part of the game and IMHO should be. That’s why teams frequently change their sign “keys” and sequences, to make it more difficult to steal their signs. But when out of uniform, off-field personnel do it, that crosses the line.

Lyle, one of my favorite pitchers all-time is Gaylord Perry. He of course was said to use the spitball extensively. Opposing teams would often demand that the umpire examine the ball, search him for “foreign substances”, etc. Even his own team mates believed he did it but he never admitted it even to them. Although frequently accused, to my knowledge he was never caught. When asked about it after he retired he laughed and said he did occasionally, but rarely, throw one. But just the thought that he did it, and the mental edge that provided was what he wanted. When you watched him he went to great lengths to touch different parts of his uniform before every pitch, just to give hitters something else to think about. He had so much natural movement on his pitches that he didn’t need any foreign substance.

Ken

[WillyCamaro]

That was exactly what I was trying to say, yer the man Ken .
Willy