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Damascus....
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:25 am
by JJFire
Hey guys,
I have only discovered this site a little while ago, and haven't scratched the surface of information available. So forgive me if my question sounds ignorant, I know that I will keeping reading more and more as I have started this journey of wanting to and eventually building my own knives.
Back to my quest for more information. I know that I can find out more than I really need to know through scientific sites regarding metal hardness etc. etc. But are Damascus knives that much better? Better being longer lasting, and keeping an edge longer.
If so, are there any people using this technique to fabricate the blades in the U.S.? Just curious.
Thanks
JJFire
Re: Damascus....
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:34 pm
by Darksev
What we refer to as "Damascus" steel is really "Pattern Welded" steel. True Damascus steel, in my recollection (often flawed) being closer to what can be called Wootz. There are alot of myths that go along with the word Damascus, let me try to hit some of the basics.
Folding the steel does not make it inherently stronger, or last longer. In ye-olde days, folding hard and soft steels together to make layers was done to help with structural stability. The steel was nowhere near as pure as modern steels, and that could lead to problems when hardening/tempering. It was done so that less than optimal steel could be hardened and still maintain some of it's flexibility. Getting this balance was really the blademakers art. There's alot that can be said for the modern steelmaking process.
Modern Monosteel construction, especially with some of the "super steels" is generally regarded as superior blade material, the only downside is it's not as pretty. For a knife expecting to do some serious work, I'd perfer a monosteel blade, for something nice to look at, Damascus blades are great! Not that there are not good usable damascus blades. Get some damascus made from 52100 and 1095 and I'm sure it will perform quite well, but it's not going to make you the god-king of all blades
Damascus blades can provide for a "toothier" edge. the reason being that the different steels at the cutting edge will wear at different rates, producing, under magnification, a micro-serration
Re: Damascus....
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:49 am
by justold52
Darksev; Thank you for your post on this. I will agree with you.
At knife shows I ask many to see their EDU knife. NOT a one ever pulled out a knife with a "Damascus" steel blade. I keep track of the knives I see at shows (EDU). I am surprised of how many don't even have a knife in their pockets. I am sure if you ask 5 dealers to show you his EDU knife it will not be the brand he is selling. More than 50% that do have a knife have a Swiss Army knife...

I to have one on my key chain but I have a pocket knife also. I feel that Damascus blades are more for looks of art to a knife collector than a blade to use.
Re: Damascus....
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:03 pm
by Hukk
True Damascus is from Damascus, Syria and made from imported wootz from India. Here is a link for wootz. The same site can be used to search Damascus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz
Here is a link to a Russian Knifemaker that makes his own wootz.
http://www.nordicsknife.com/bulat.html He makes mostly high priced knives if you look at his gallery.
Pattern welding is to manipulate steel into the shapes that the maker controls. By using powdered steel they are able to create an almost unlimited number of patterns. By using Hot Nitre Bluing salts (from Brownells) each steel will form different colors. I've seen some blades that have up to 5 different steels - really called Mosaic Damascus - but really it's pattern welded steel done in a can using pieces of steel and powdered steels.
Here is a maker from Sweden who gets $400 to $700 for each blade and he is almost always sold out. New blades that are posted sell out fast. Take a look at his handmade blades -
http://www.johanknives.com/object.php?cId=1
Darksev gave a great answer - but I hope the links will give the whole story and what some makers are doing. Here is a last maker who offers tutorials in basic Damascus (pattern weld) as well as using a can for more complex pattern welded steel.
http://www.aescustomknives.com