All About Pocket Knives

Ok folks, I realize this is somewhat off topic, but I collect Schrades and will be posting a bunch of questions and photos on this section in the next week or so and thought I would start here with a question. I have around 25 Schrades at this point and am now watching ebay to find some that I am after that I don't have. I use the Schrade guide that some fantastic person has put up here. I recently was he lucky winner of a swell center 863. But I have a question as I am unsure what is going on in ebay and whether it is legitamite or not. I was watching these two knives, both Schrade 206 Barlows of which I really want one:

#1 - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 500wt_1156

#2 -http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 500wt_1156

In any event, there is about a $25 difference in the bidding price - whatever that happens. But in both instances the last person to bid was the same person. Who also didn't win the knife. And there is such a large discrepancy in the prices that I don't know why the bidder would have not tried to get the other knife, of similar quality, for half the price.

I am very new to how ebay works, having bought quite a few knives, and just learning how to sell, but I often feel like there are strange things at work in there. Would any of you be so kind to give me a few tips on how to navigate this part of the internet? I see stuff like this all the time, but am very confused.

Again, not sure if this is the appropriate place, but I have decided I will only be collecting Schrade knives because I love the history and just thought I could come here first.

Thanks for any help?!?!

A few things come to my mind that may account for the differences of prices.

1- The pictures themselves helped sell the second knife (the one that sold for more money). The seller had better pictures and the knife looked much better,
2- The condition of the knives. See the lines running down the face of the blade in the first knife? It should not look like that. In all likelihood the knife was in rough shape and perhaps dirty. Someone put it on a coarse Scotch Brite wheel and left those non-standard lines on the blade. There are some spots on the blade, likely just stains, but some people don’t like that. That first knife should sell for less.
3- The descriptions of each knife. The first seller is unsure what the tang stamp stood for, not sure of the date, & not sure if it had been sharpened. The second seller was much more positive in the way he presented it. He did not address things he did not know about. All the second seller gave was pertinent info without sounding like he didn’t know what he was talking about.
4- The second knife was in much better condition than the first knife.
5- We don’t know what is in the mind of bidders. Often if there 2 bidders who really want a knife they will run a price beyond what is the average price for that pattern.

These are some of the things that likely affected the final price of these two knives, even though the first knife had the more uncommon tang stamp. The second knife was in far better condition.

You will get a better idea of prices of a pattern if you look at the completed auctions and see what knives of that pattern have actually sold for, than you will get looking at the uncompleted auction or at Buy It Now listings. When you look at thousands of knives in auctions and handle thousands of the knives in person, this all will become much clearer.

Hope this helps,
Dale

There you have it, from the fantastic person that researched and posted the Schrade guide here.
Thanks Orvet.
Mark

Opinions on Ebay, from someone who has bought and sold over 400 knives on Ebay. Most of them Schrades. Do not try to make too much sense of how the bidding goes. But I can tell you this from experience:

Excellent feedback, good pictures and honest descriptions bring the best prices.

Low starting prices attract more competition and ultimately higher prices.

Many people will pay more when they bid on an auction, even if there is a BUY IT NOW for less. If there is a starting price that is high, most people will not start the bidding.

There are countless bidding strategies (and selling strategies), but as a seller, I like the bidders that can't stand to see their name in 2nd place.

If the knife is a really good one, there will be snipers at the end of the auction.

Some of the best deals come from recognizing horrible pictures of a great knife.

Sometimes there will be an ordinary knife that brings a huge price. Even if there are several just like it for sale.

There are a fair amount of scams on Schrades, and a fair amount of listings with BS descriptions.

There are always exceptions, but a knife stamped SCHRADE USA is probably a genuine pre-2004 Schrade knife. A knife stamped SCHRADE WALDEN might be genuine, but not necessarily.

None of these opinions are true every time. Ebay is somewhat of a crap shoot, but a great place to learn about Schrade knives. This forum is a great place too..

Hal

Well put Dale and Hawk ________ E-Bay is-------"'Like A Crap Shoot""_____but a """School for Learning""

Wow, thanks so much for those detailed replies. I appreciate you breaking it down for me Dale. Unfortunately, at this point in my collecting career, those details would have never been caught by me. And, let me add based on the other gentleman's post, THANK YOU for putting together the Schrade guide. I use that as my sole reference for anything Schrade, aside from a photo I have of tangs and dates from flickr.

I think I have a lot of learning to do as it relates to eBay and since I feel like I have no other outlet from which to get knives, I only go there. If there is some other way outside of stopping at yard sales/antique shops/etc, please tell me! As I indicated, Schrade knives are what i have decided will be my focus if I can afford them. I started out buying a bunch of whatever and ended up with some that have bad blades and damage myself so get why one would pay more for something based on the details.

I did have one other question to the last poster - you mentioned that when a tang says 'schrade walden' is't not alway such? I always use this as a guide to assume the knife if pre 1970. Am I missing something or is this just a fraud alert where someoen might replace a blade?


Also, not to convolute this thread too much, but from the book I have it is very difficult to understand what happened between when G. Schrade left and what happened through the wars. Any suggestions on where to start reading?

Really appreciate the dialog and looking forward to learning as much I can in the 30 minutes I have for this each day

-Ray

Some knives were made by Camillus post 2004, and marked Schrade- Walden. They are well made USA knives, just not made by Schrade. There may be others, Im not sure.
Mark

Ahh, got it, thanks.

I am not at all abashed to tell you that there is another Schrade subforum
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forum ... .php?f=732
If you pay a nominal fee you can search archives.
Secondly, this website is absolutely indispensible to Schrade research:
http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/
And you can always send a pm to Dale, Hal, or myself. Bon appetit!

Camillus made knives for Schrade both before and after the bankruptcy. Good stuff. More recently, Bear & Sons out of Atlanta Georgia, and Utica are making genuine USA knives with Schrade trademark etches and stampings for Taylor, more "famous" for his "infamous" Chinese Schrade offerings. These Chinese knives dominate the ebay scene for Schrade. They are probably good knives, and getting better by the day. I will never know.

OK Ray,
There are several things in this post of your that I would like to address.

1- The Schrade info I posted started as my own personal guide to Schrade, it is not complete. I will eventually be posting an update, but there are several things I need to complete before I get to that. It is my pleasure to share it with other Schrade collectors.

2- You can learn about knives by watching and shopping on ebay, but much of what you read from some sellers is not necessarily true. Another excellent resource for Schrade information is the Collectors of Schrade website run by our friend and AAPK member Larry Vickery: http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ You will find a lot of information there; old catalogs, pictures of knives, company flyers and a whole host of other info.

3- At the Schrade auction Stewart Taylor of Taylor Brands L.L.C. purchased the intellectual property of Schrade, including designs, brand names, etc. Taylor Brands contracted with Camillus Cutlery, (initially), to produce knives under the Schrade Walden name. Many were packaged in old plastic tubes found in the factory left over from the 1960s & 1970. The way to tell if they are “new” Schrades is by finding the Taylor Brands L.L.C. name on the paper insert in the tube. The model numbers are different as well. Later Taylor had other companies make knives under that Schrade Walden name including his maker in China. The knives made by Camillus are good quality knives, but they are not Schrade knives.

4- There is not a lot written about the history of Schrade. You will find some in a few books, but many are out of print or dated in the info they have. A great place to start is with Levine’s Guide to Knives and Their Values, by Bernard Levine, especially the 3rd or 4th edition. You may not be able to find a copy at a reasonable price, (they some time sell for $100+). The 4th edition is considered my many to be the Knife Collectors Bible. Blade magazine produces a book something like Levine’s (I don’t know the story behind it), based I think on Bernard’s work. It is called Blade’s Guide To Knives & Their Values, which will have some of the same info in it.
Another good book is American Premium Guide To Pocket Knives Identification And Values, by Jim Sargent. The 1st & 2nd editions both include a section on Schrade & Schrade Walden. Those sections were dropped from the 3rd and later editions.



I see Cal has made a couple posts while I was preparing this answer; I had to eat dinner & feed our dogs before I could finish this. But he makes a great point, you can email or PM us to ask questions. Blade forums is a good forum, though many people find the attitude of some there to be less than friendly especially toward new members who don’t know a lot of the basic info. I must say that the attitude in the Schrade Forum is better than the rest of the forum, the guys there are friendlier. I spent a lot of time there early on, but due to health issues and a lack of time I have let my membership there lapse. But it is a great place to research in their archives.

We have another outstanding resource here on AAPK, one of our members, lt632ret, aka Rich Langston, has his own Schrade Museum in a building at his house. Rich has collected Schrade for 50+ years and after he retired he even worked for Schrade before they closed. “Curator of Antiquities” I believe was his official title. He probably has the largest Schrade collection now in the world since the break up of the Schrade Factory Collection. If it is not the biggest Schrade collection, it is certainly in the top 2 or 3 in the world. You can read about LT (Rich) and his collection and his efforts in helping to establish a public museum in this thread: http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 35&t=20159

Well Ray,
There are a few suggestions & a good place to start.
Welcome to our sickness!

Dale

Wosey, I think is is a USA Schrade.
This is a quote from the auction description:
"schrade whittlin kit brand new.this whittlin kit is when schrade products where made in the u.s.a..kit comes in its own tin,includes schrade pin, piece of basswood,and limited edition schrade knife.also booklet tells you how to whittle,plus picture of old factory in ellenville n.y..knife limited edition,schrade n.y.u.s.a. 881y"

So, if what he says is true, it should be USA made.
Pretty hard to read when he doesn't like to capitalize or use the space bar.
This is an excellent bad example of you to get less than the value of the knife you are selling.
The buyer has to decipher the sellers description to determine of it is the real deal.
When the seller presents his auction in such a sloppy, unprofessional manner, he only hurts himself.

Now all of us here know Wosey & we know that he knows Schrades. If this guy gives such a bad description & pics that Wosey can't tell if it is real, he is going to lose most of his best potential customers!
A perfect example of how NOT to run an auction!

But this is also an excellent example of what to look for in an auction that may end up going under value.