All About Pocket Knives

I have posted here before about the Uncle Henry serial numbers though receintly I purchased a Schrade Walden 897UH which has led me to another piece of the Schrade puzzle (I hope). Stay with me while I throw some numbers around. My SW897 is numbered 91483, my S+897 is numbered 94578 that is only a difference of 3,095 knives. The serialised Shrade Walden 897s were made from 1967 to 1973 (inclusive) that is 7 years of production. That means that between 13,069 to 13,511 knives were produced each year (i.e. based on the assumption 1. the 91483 was the last knife made in 1973 and 2. 94577 was in fast the last knife made that year). That number assumes a fixed output which in reality would have been smaller to begin with and expanded year by year; however using the thirteen thousand number (which is the narrowest margin) my Schrade Walden 897UH was made in 1973 and my Schrade 897UH was made in 1974.
What do you all think? ... Also to help narrow down the field does anyone have any Schrade Walden or Schrade 897UH knives with serial numbers between these numbers?

I believe the knives with the SW prefix were made by Camillus & possibility by Utica for Taylor Brands after the Schrade bankruptcy in 2004.

I have never seen a SW897 listed in any Schrade catalog until after Taylor Brands started having knives made for them under the Schrade Walden name, circa 2005-2006.

Let me rephrase that, 'My SW897' is only the shorthand I used in the above post to say, 'My Schrade Walden Uncle Henry 897'. The knife does not actually have the model number stamped on the tang.

OK, now that we have clarified that is not a Taylor Brands model SW897UH.....

Bootclad wrote:What do you all think? ...

Your hypothesis rests on the assumption that Schrade continued the numbering consecutively when they changed tang stamps in June of 1973, correct?

It also assumes that someone didn't find a batch of older numbered bolsters and use them after the tang stamp change, or that the knife you have did not go back to the factory and have the blade replaced.

I have spent years studying Schrade & Schrade Walden and their catalogs; in all that time I have found that about the time I figure I have something nailed down, a new piece of information comes to light and my theory is blown out of the water, repeatedly.

I do not trust Schrade's numbers, even the length of knives in their catalogs are listed incorrectly in some models from year to year. I do not trust their accuracy!

While your premise and your math may seem quite logical you are forgetting that Schrade was NOT logical! Schrade made knives; they were not concerned about most anything else, including record keeping. Schrade did not do things logically, they just made knives!

That said, your total production numbers seem way low to me. 94,577 knives produced from 1967, (remember production often started the year before so they could sell them at the first of the new year), through the tang stamp change at the end of June 1973, or 13,511 knives per year for one of Schrade's most popular patterns?

The 3-9/16" size was very popular for Schrade they made a number of patterns in that size, including the 825 in the Open Stock series. It was made in some form or another from 1950 to 1988, and it is the same frame as the 897UH, the parts are interchangeable. In spite of the popularity of the 897 they still made the open stock 825 and sold both models. Incidentally both models had stainless steel blades. The 3-9/16" size seemed to be wildly popular, I just believe the 94,577 is way too low a number for 7 years production of the most popular Uncle Henry knife, even when it was first introduced, because there was already a great market for the 3-9/16" frame.


You asked:

Bootclad wrote:What do you all think? ...

And these are my thoughts on the subject. It there were production records from Schrade, and if we could access them, we might know for sure if your hypothesis was right. However, if such records do exist, (and I am a skeptic where such records are concerned), we do not have access to them, so all our guessing is essentially an exercise in futility.

There you have what I think.
I am always open to having my mind changed, but it will take hard evidence to change my mind, not theories.


EDIT: I want to say kudos for creative thinking!
It is that type thinking that will get answers, but in this case I think there is too little evidence to support your hypothesis.

Thank you Dale for that informative response. I agree that logic may not be the best approach when dealing with Schrade and also that I had not considered the 'maybes' that you proposed; I must have got blinded by the prospect of being able to narrow down a date.
As you suggested, the production of only 91 thousand knives during the SW years dosen't seem enough. It could be put down to the establishment of the new 'Brand' , the Uncle Henry's bigger price (as a new unknown line) and the competition of existing (same frame Schrade) models before 'taking off'. Yes, actual production records would be great.
In the mean time we need more Serial Numbers from collectors i.e. does someone have a Schrade Walden 897 with a really big number?

Bootclad wrote:Thank you Dale for that informative response. I agree that logic may not be the best approach when dealing with Schrade and also that I had not considered the 'maybes' that you proposed; I must have got blinded by the prospect of being able to narrow down a date.

I know that feeling all too well, having been blindsided by Schrade more times than I care to remember!

Schrade did not continue the numbers for very many years.
They started with 00,0001 to 99,999, then went to A00,001 to A99,999.
After going through the alphabet they started with AB00,001, AB99,999, then AC99,001 ect.
I am not sure what the highest serial number they reached was, but they did not maintain the serial numbers for very many years until they stopped them all together. They were producing so many knives they couldn't keep track of the all the numbers and they became pointless. At least that was the story I heard from a couple sources.

I think I have seen LB7s with MW prefix, but the highest serial number I have currently on an LB7 is an AX prefix.
I don't know about the 897UH serial numbers, it is not a pattern I follow or collect as I do not usually like stainless steel blades and ironically, as much as I like the 3-9/16" size frame with the rounded bolsters most of the ones Schrade made were with ss blades!
The main exceptions were the 895, 896K & 899. The few other patterns in the 3-9/16" in carbon steel were discontinued in the 1950s. Even the two 3-9/16" patterns in the Old Timer line were made with ss blades! The 98OT Wrangler was a stockman pattern and the 93OT, Wrangler was a jack pattern. I would have loved them if they had carbon steel blades!

I see no logic in Schrades use of primarily ss blades in the 3-9/16" frames. It was such an immensely popular size and is so pocket friendly, I don't know why they did not make the pattern in carbon steel! Yet another example of the lack of logic in the way Schrade did things!

So its amazing what a little research can do, i.e. digging through the Archives here.
In a post from Codger_64 on the 04-02-2008, titled, 'The new/old 897UH', he presents a knife he just got with the specs.

SCHRADE WALDEN
....N.Y. U.S.A.
....STAINLESS
and the pattern number 897UH stamped on the pile side of the master blade, serialized A4424.

Now, I got burnt before about making assumptions but is seems:
Schrade Walden 897UH numbers ran high enough to need prefixes.
At some stage the model number was stamped on the tang, pile side (as had been the custom with their other knives) OR my knife (without model number) was just missed out.
and .. third not-assumption ... just musing,
After June 1973 when Walden was dropped from the tang stamp, numbering re-started from 00001.

So, has anyone got a Schrade Walden 897UH serial number larger or with another prefix?

I have an 897 with no model number on it S# 11982

I have two Walden 897UHs, both with serial numbers. The earliest numbered one is a Keen Kutter with 1869-1969 stamped on the shield, number 00794. Assuming that these were made in late 1968 for sale early in 1969, and that the 897UH debuted in 1967, then fewer than 800 were made in the first year of production. Or . . . they started a new serial number run for the Keen Kutter knives. My second one is serial numbered A0972. Original-to-the-knife boxes add info to help date Schrades, but unfortunately very few people saved boxes back in the day. And secondary sale sources like fleabay are notorious for mixing boxes with knives to help a sale.

Great find on the knife!
That is very interesting about the serial number..... Thanks for showing!