All About Pocket Knives

a beautiful white Bowie '77 Collection, a 9541 Tube knife, a #95202 3-1/4" Jack with wood scales and a 855 pattern Craftsman...

Some of these are more likely to be Imperial or Camillus than Schrade.

tongueriver wrote:Some of these are more likely to be Imperial or Camillus than Schrade.

Ha!! that didn't occur to me! I've had the 855 Schrade Craftsman, then added the other 3. The 9541 came in a tube and I assumed it was Schrade. But now that you mention it, I wonder about the Bowie '77 and I look at the 95202 master blade details and they are very similar to the Bowie.

How should I verify that they are either Imperial or Camillus?

I just re-checked the '77 Collection Bowie and the 3-1/4" Jack and they are definitely no pin Swindon system knives. Does this mean they are Schrades then?

They're very nice knives whatever they are...

______________
Mike

Check 6:

Nice photos too.

__________
Mike

Nice knives! I think they are all Schrade products.

That 95202 looks Camillus to me.

Regardless, nice knives!

Swiden key construction is only found on Schrade manufactured knives.
At the Schrade closure auction some very astute collectors purchased all the paperwork. This included minutes of meetings in which decisions to make various runs of knives are discussed, as well as daily shop floor notes as to what was made that day, etc.
The 'buck stops here' (said the knife hunter). The paperwork shows what really happened, not hearsay or assumptions or what old collector Fred told you. What is clearly shown is that Schrade, Camillus & Imperial all did work for each other, sometimes doing part of the work and sometimes making the entire knife that would be branded with one of the other two company names.
With the Craftsman branded knives some are pure Schrade or Camillus or Imperial, whereas others were made as a joint effort by 2 of these companies.
The important point is that it makes no difference to the knife.
Albert Baer had the Craftsman knife contract in which the specifications for every knife run were stated. The knives were made to these specifications regardless of which of Albert's factories was doing the work. Furthermore the Sears contract at about 30,000 knives per year was very important to the financial health of Albert Baer's knife business. He made sure the best workmanship possible went into the Sears Craftsman knives. Hence regardless of which of his 3 knife companies were involved, the resulting knives are among the best they made.
kj

Very interesting to read the comments! And I really appreciate everyone's response!

I've got the 95202 in my hand, with a 10x eye loop and I can clearly see there are no pins in the bolsters. Same with the '77 Collection Bowie. And by the way, with the cream color scales, it is really handsome!

I'm not arguing with you Dave. You have the knife in hand.

That said, the 95202 "looks like" it came directly out of the wood handled series (below) that Camillus made from 1999 - 2003. I have a #5 from that series (thanks Tommy) but never questioned it's genetics or looked for pins in the bolsters. Until now.

Dug out the #5 and it has pins in the bolsters. So advertised by Camillus, stamped Camillus, pins in the bolsters, definitely Camillus.

Is it possible that Sears saw the Camillus wood series and told Schrade, "We want some knives made that way." Or since they were actually the same company, the salesman showed them that Camillus line to meet a price point Sears had requested. Then made the ordered patterns at Schrade on Schrade machinery. More speculation with no supporting facts because you can see from the Camillus catalog page shown below, Camillus didn't make a 3¼" medium jack in that wood handle series.

Jerry,
Thanks for doing that! and maybe just because it's my knife.... but I'm really enjoying this discussion!

I took some close-ups of the 95202 medium Jack bolster (and the other 2)...

some better photos of the individual Craftsman knives... I included the plastic bag with item number for the 95202 in one shot.

Well would you lookee what I found. Decided since it's a medium jack, it would go well with my small collection of medium jacks and went for a cruise on eBay. There is one. Missing the bolster. I guess that answers the heritage question.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970S-VINTAGE-A ... Swp5JWXJOL
And I don't care what the seller says. You would have a very difficult time convincing me that knife was not made just before Schrade went out of business.

jerryd6818 wrote:Well would you lookee what I found. Decided since it's a medium jack, it would go well with my small collection of medium jacks and went for a cruise on eBay. There is one. Missing the bolster. I guess that answers the heritage question.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970S-VINTAGE-A ... Swp5JWXJOL
And I don't care what the seller says. You would have a very difficult time convincing me that knife was not made just before Schrade went out of business.

We can clearly see that the final construction was done with the Swinden machinery in the Schrade buildings, but the clip blade grind (specifically the swedge) may well be from Imperial or Camillus. If not, then Schrade changed their grind very late in their game. I am inclined toward the former explanation. Folk talk about the mixed-up parts scene during the end-of-days @ Schrade, but as Roland has so clearly explained, this was going on to some degree years earlier.

Jerry, is the Camillus page showing the "Woodcraft" knives ? I think that is the correct name for a series marked 881 to 887 that came out twice, first with handle pins, second time no handle pins. I don't see "Woodcraft" in the ad but i think that's what they are.
kj

Schrade and Camillus worked as separate companies for a very good reason.
Get upset with on company go to the other.
I worked for people who owned two hire companies.Customer left you and went to other company.
The same people were making money from you and you did not know.
Dale (Orvet ) has shown several examples where Camillus made parts for Imperial (Schrade )
I have Craftsman knives made by Imperial, Schrade and Camillus.

Grant

855 Stainless can be found on the pile side of Schrade Walden knives. I would agree with all KJ/Roland had to say. Lots of brother-in-law work being done.

kootenay joe wrote:Jerry, is the Camillus page showing the "Woodcraft" knives ? I think that is the correct name for a series marked 881 to 887 that came out twice, first with handle pins, second time no handle pins. I don't see "Woodcraft" in the ad but i think that's what they are.
kj

I don't think so. The named "Woodcraft Series" was in the 1996 catalog and as you noted, had three digit numbers and pinned laminated wood handles. I've not seen a series name for the ones in the 2003 catalog. They had single digit numbers and pinned laminated wood handles but instead of nickel silver bolsters like the ones in the 1996 catalog, the ones in the 2003 catalog had brass bolsters.

Were they the same series? Were they the same knives? Hell I don't know. Maybe. Although if you compare, besides the bolster materials, you'll find some of the patterns are different. If you want them to be the same then fine, they're the same. It's not something I lose sleep over.

Now I'm going to soothe my over stressed brain with some classic country music and a natural balm I call bourbon.

hehehehe...!!! natural balm. America's only native Spirit.

Anyway, my take away is... Blades were made by Camillus on contract for Schrade and then the knives were made in the Schrade factory. Sum it up about right?

This is how I get in trouble; read a thread about some cool knives which made me decide that I needed a nice old Craftsman with a crown shield.
Whala - eBay served one right up! Nice knives gents - enjoying the pictures. OH
Ps sellers photo, I won't have it for a week.

hahaha...!!! OH, that same thing happened to me yesterday with a modern folder I was reading about. Found the dang knife online I was just reading about and bought it. Mine will be here next Wed.

Old Hunter wrote:This is how I get in trouble; read a thread about some cool knives which made me decide that I needed a nice old Craftsman with a crown shield.
Whala - eBay served one right up! Nice knives gents - enjoying the pictures. OH
Ps sellers photo, I won't have it for a week.

aka 897UH, a very pocketable and attractive knife.

Old Hunter wrote:This is how I get in trouble; read a thread about some cool knives which made me decide that I needed a nice old Craftsman with a crown shield.
Whala - eBay served one right up! Nice knives gents - enjoying the pictures. OH
Ps sellers photo, I won't have it for a week.

I was watching that one but opted for these two Craftsman knives instead since I don't have either one of them and I do have a 9552. It was tempting because of the condition though. Good buy!

Old Hunter wrote:This is how I get in trouble; read a thread about some cool knives which made me decide that I needed a nice old Craftsman with a crown shield.
Whala - eBay served one right up! Nice knives gents - enjoying the pictures. OH
Ps sellers photo, I won't have it for a week.

Looks like a Schrade 861. I love that Turkish clip main.