All About Pocket Knives

Someone splain this one to me....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-Schrade-W ... Sw2gxYnjXK

That is unique,nice knife.. looks like that saw can cut some serious timber..wow.

If you look at the stamp on the back of that blade it has 285UH stamped on it. I believe that is a Chinese blade. I know it looks like an old Schrade Walden tang stamp on the front but I have never seen that type of model number tang stamp of that size and font on anything other than a Chinese made Schrade. Maybe Taylor is now using the old Schrade Walden tang stamp on some of their Chinese made knives, or even possibly I am wrong about the model number tang stamp, however, I I seriously doubt that saw blade was ever intended to go in a USA made Uncle Henry knife.

I think that frame is far too light for such a large saw blade. Small bolsters and thin frame, IMHO, make it likely that the user would accidentally exert some sideways pressure and loosen the tang. The glare on the bolsters in those pictures is pretty bad, but I think I can see a pin in the bolsters, both front and rear on the mark side. If we had good clear pictures it would be easier to see, and if it is a through pin construction it wasn’t made in the Schrade factory.

I don’t even think that that is an end of days knife. It looks to me more like a chop and cobble knife that someone grafted in a saw blade from another knife, probably in imported knife. I cannot recall seeing a saw blade of that design on any American knife, including Schrade multi-tools. It looks to me as though the tang on that saw blade has been filed or milled down to be thin enough to fit the width of the back spring correctly. Again if we had decent pictures it would make it a whole lot easier to decide if this knife is legit or not. Have you ever noticed how most of the sellers who are selling questionable knives do so with really lousy pictures?
I wonder if those two facts have a connection?



Something else is bugging me about this saw blade it looks vaguely familiar, but not Schrade-ish.
Any of you guys recognize this saw blade from another brand/pattern?

Tip and the teeth of the saw blade remind me of a 97OT, obviously not though.

Looks like it came off an import multi tool.

My guess is that it is a prototype or lunchbox special. Like the 285s with the 292 type saw/fish scaler/hook disgorger/ bottle operner blade attached to a 285UH that I have seen. The saw blade on this one looks just like the one on my Craftsman electricians knife and the camp/utility knife I have. They were also made during the Schrade Walden period. The only difference is mine don't have the nail nik. Just my opinion, judge for yourselves.

FatCity67 wrote: Looks like it came off an import multi tool.

That was exactly what I was thinking!
I just don't know which one.

The handles and clip blade look right, aside from being cleaned. It's not the factory finish. In the 3rd photo it looks like an exposed bolster pin is visible, if so indicating the addition of the sawblade. Mustanger is spot on with the sawblade comparison.

I think it's a genuine schrade with a fantasy sawblade. The sawblade may even be schrade made but I don't think it's a factory combination. The seller probably doesn't know that (assuming what I say is correct).

Last time I checked the seller has a nice delrin walden 881 that looks really good, high price but a nice one.

I can't see the bolster pins after cropping and enlarging the pictures. The step you can see at the tang on the outside looks like it might have been slimmed down on the inside to fit. The nail nik was added because the blade fits inside the handle whereas on my two Craftsmans it overhangs to where you catch the end of the saw blade with your finger to pull it open, like other Schrade knives with a saw blade. The only jerry rigging that I can see is the added nail nik, possible thinning of the tang on the inside and possibly some material removed from the end of the spring (or handle butt) to accommodate the end of the saw blade. I'm leaning toward the lunchbox special explanation for this knife. The Craftsman 9555 camp knife was only made one year in 1967. I don't know about the 9561 electricians knife, but I'm sure it's a Schrade Walden. So maybe somebody found some leftover saw blades and stuck one on a 285UH? Maybe he got the idea from seeing a 292 fish knife blade added to a 285UH? Who knows? I love these Schrade curiosities and head scratchers.

I have a Schrade/NY USA and a Schrade+/USA 285UH to compare it to, but no Walden(yet ). But from all the pictures I've seen of a Walden 285, the blade looks right to me. And best I can tell from the pics, it doesn't have steel jimped liners. If I could see a pin through the bolster, I'd assume this is a post 73 frame someone added a Walden and saw blade to. I'm going to query the seller to see if he will respond to questions.

orvet wrote: Something else is bugging me about this saw blade it looks vaguely familiar, but not Schrade-ish.
Any of you guys recognize this saw blade from another brand/pattern?

That’s why it looked familiar; it’s in the Craftsman camp knife! Not Schrade branded but definitely Schrade-ish!

So I suppose the next question is; was it done in the factory or was it done afterwards?

The back spring on the Schrade (as opposed to Schrade Walden) 285UH is .105” in width. Generally there’s not a difference in blade/spring with from the Schrade Walden’s to the Schrades though occasionally there is a few thousandths variation due to differences in batches of steel. Or at least that’s the explanation I have been given for the variation.

The back spring for the saw blade in the Craftsman Camp knife is .075”.
In order to make that blade sit properly and not be loose someone had to mill down a spring for the 285UH and take off .030”. Substituting in the back spring from a Craftsman camp knife is not a possibility as that knife is ¼” shorter.

Somebody went to a fair amount trouble to put this saw blade into this knife, if they did it properly. Unfortunately the seller does not give decent pictures nor even a decent description of the knife. There are no pictures that show the ends of the knife, the back of the knife where the springs are, nor do they show the blades setting in the pockets. There is really no way to tell if this was something put together from parts or something that somebody in the Schrade custom shop was playing with. Without much better pictures or some help from the seller it would be pretty hard to tell unless you had in your hand.

Was it a prototype? I kind of doubt it, because Schrade never made just one of anything. If they made a prototype they usually made several and I don’t know of anyone who is seen this before do you?
That being said, there have been a lot of Schrade parts floating around these days, blades, pins, bolsters, back springs, handles, even some things that I suspect probably were not knife parts. SMKW sells them for $19.99 per 5 pounds. I suspect Blue Ridge sells them also. People seem to be buying these bulk lots than selling them more desirable pieces like blades on eBay.

There are usually about 100+/- listings at any given time on eBay for Schrade parts. It is pretty easy for someone to buy boxes full of parts and start assembling knives. I have bought a number of these boxes myself because they can be a good source for replacement blades when I’m repairing someone’s knife. Unfortunately, there is no control over what you do get. It may be mostly knife frames, springs and pins or it may be heat-treated but unground blades. This stuff seems to be literally available by the ton! SMKW has been selling these 5 pounds parts lots for a couple years that I know of and they still in stock!
I have actually made a couple Schrade Tough Tools, (the multi-tools/pliers combination), just from parts I received in those boxes. I gave one to my dad and I use one in my shop or tackle box. I have made several other knives from parts, several in the SP series and a couple 7OTXs. There are all sorts of parts being sold by the pound.
Since there are so many parts available to the general public the possibility exists that there are people putting together random knives from mismatched parts that they have purchased. Because of that I am skeptical of a lot of the so-called “prototypes,” “one offs,” and “lunchbox specials.” I think a lot of them are just knives cobbled together from parts.

That’s my opinion and admittedly I am a skeptic. However, the possibility still exist that this knife is indeed a true prototype, but given the amount of parts floating around on eBay and other places these days I am far more skeptical of the word “prototype” than I was 10 years ago.

Now to add to the mystery of this knife.....

I sent a message to the seller quizzing him/her about the liners and serial#. The answer is; this knife has brass liners and a s# of 0031.

If it were a true Walden 285UH with that low a serial#, wouldn't it have steel jimped liners? Didn't they use steel jimped liners on all the 73 and earlier 285s and 885s?

gwelker62 wrote:If it were a true Walden 285UH with that low a serial#, wouldn't it have steel jimped liners? Didn't they use steel jimped liners on all the 73 and earlier 285s and 885s?

Not that I am aware of. Where did you get this information?
I'm not saying it's wrong, I just have not heard of that before.

Haven't seen it documented anywhere that the 885 & 285 Walden UHs use steel jimped liners exclusively. Basing it strictly off every single one of them I've seen online for sale have steel liners. Like this one for example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172494814413?ss ... 1436.l2649

And this one from Mr. Charity.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schrade-Walden- ... Swux5YP73H

I don't know for sure. That's why I posed it as a question.

Just read in Mr. Charity's description and he states his 285 has brass liners. I probably souldn't use anything in his inventory for reference, since a lot of his stuff is a bit squirrelly.

I'll look to see if I can find some more examples, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of 285UHs for sale at the moment.

I think the steel liners you're referring to are actually nickel silver.

I originally thought they were nickel silver, but in a lot of places I've read they are referenced as steel. I really don't know, just repeating what I've read.

I'm revising my previous statement about the possibility of the stepped tang on the saw blade possibly being ground down to fit on the inside. It appears that way in the crappy photo. But I just got my Craftsmans out and looked at them and both are smooth, without a wider tang step on the inside. Just on the outside. The saw blade is much thinner than the other blades. So the crappy picture may not be depicting a ground off tang on the inside. I do have this picture of the Craftsman electricians knife that I took to show how wide the knife is. The thinner spring on the bottom is for the saw blade and the blade is thinner than that because of the outside tang. The saw is quite rigid considering how thin it is. It would make a good drywall saw for installing electrical outlets and stuff. The design of the teeth make for a great wood saw on the camp knife too.

gwelker62 wrote:I originally thought they were nickel silver, but in a lot of places I've read they are referenced as steel. I really don't know, just repeating what I've read.

They might be nickel silver, but second eBay listing you posted obviously has brass liners, it’s apparent from the pictures themselves. We have seen that seller before; I noticed he lists it as a Schrade Walden, but look at the tang stamp.

As far as the jimping on the liners goes, that was common on the new higher-end patterns introduced by Schrade in the 1950s. It was usually discontinued after a year or so. The 285UH is one of the first half-dozen new patterns introduced under the Uncle Henry name, which is probably why they did the jimping on the liners to make the statement to their old customers that this is a higher-end knife.

Nickel silver was sometimes used in the 1950s by Schrade Walden and even earlier by other American manufacturers on higher end knives. Nickel silver was and still is considerably more expensive than brass. Steel is cheaper than either. The use of steel liners by American manufacturers, aside from the brass shortage years of World War II, is generally to make a knife less expensive or to perhaps make it stronger with some heavy use patterns, like a pruning knife.

I would really like to see the sources you are reading that say these Uncle Henrys are made with steel liners.

orvet wrote:
I would really like to see the sources you are reading that say these Uncle Henrys are made with steel liners.

Like I said, I'm only repeating the nomenclature I've read when I referred to 'steel' liners used on Walden 885UHs and 285UHs. And that would be what I read from online discussions and seller descriptions. I would not consider them "sources". I'm not really trying to make a case that Schrade used steel liners for those first production 885/285s. Rather, it just wasn't brass.

I'm still very ignorant when it comes to knife anatomy, terminology, construction materials, and manufacturer's history. So nothing I say here should be considered me thinking I know what the facts are.

Sorry man, I’m not trying to put you on the spot.
The way you put is making me laugh so hard I can hardly type.

I would consider a credible source something printed by Schrade.
EBay sellers often have trouble identifying the correct brand or pattern of a knife. They would not be what I would consider a credible source for the most part. There are some eBay sellers that no one incredible amount about knives, there may be two or three dozen of them. But there’s probably 1000 people selling knives on eBay

I have worked with Larry Vickery at collectors-of-Schrade in compiling them. He and I share electronic copies of knife catalogs. We have shared so many catalogs back and forth, Schrade, Camillus & Western that I don’t think either one of us could say how many of the catalog on his site came from him and how many came from me. And of course some of them we both have hard copies of. He and I are both kind of knife history junkies.
We have shared a lot of catalogs back and forth Schrade, Camillus & Western catalogs; we are both kind of knife history junkies. So between the catalogs I have purchased and the ones I have received from Larry I have electronic copies of all the catalogs on Larry’s website plus the flyers that Schrade used to introduce new products.

I went through all of the pertinent catalogs and flyers related to 1967 through 1969 to cover both sides of the date the 285UH was issued, (1968). I have found nothing that describes the jimping on the liners and nothing that mentions steel liners. That in itself does not mean it could not be true but as someone who likes researching knives, it sort of drives me nuts when someone makes an absolute statement and then can’t at least tell me where they found the information.

Larry and I both have a passion for sharing correct information about knives. That’s why we share so much information back and forth. Both of us have spent a lot of money to purchase the copies of the catalogs that are posted on his site, free to anyone who wants to use them, because we like sharing accurate information. Most knife researchers are passionate about accurate information. I know one incredibly knowledgeable collector who will not post nor read any knife forum because he says there is too much in accurate information on them. This collector is very gracious to share his database with me, but it’s with the proviso that I never print copies of his information online. I can read the information and take facts from it and post it online, but I cannot post copies of pictures or catalogs.

I realize you may be new to knife collecting, we all were at one time. I am sharing with you a little of my passion for correct information so that you understand why I am being so insistent on this subject. I’m not trying to beat you up or say you don’t know what you’re talking about but when you said you’re just repeating nomenclature you have read, all I want is to know where you read it so I can read it for myself!

I have often said there is nothing carved in stone about Schrade, at best there are a few things that can be etched in Jell-O. I have only been really researching and collecting Schrade for a little more than 10 years and don’t know how many Schrade knives I have. I stopped counting at about 700 or 800 and that was several years ago. I don’t have an example of everything Schrade made, and I don’t know everything there is about Schrade but you brought something up that I have not encountered before that’s why I would really like to know where you read it! I have read thousands of pages on Schrade and never once seen what you are describing.

If you think of where you’ve read it, post it or send me a PM, I would love to read the information because I’m always learning new stuff about Schrade!

Happy Schrade collecting!
Dale

orvet wrote: If you think of where you’ve read it, post it or send me a PM, I would love to read the information because I’m always learning new stuff about Schrade!

Happy Schrade collecting!
Dale

I do understand being a stickler for accuracy. If one is going to collecting anything, it's kind of a big deal.

Like I said, I don't think I read anywhere someone claiming those liners where steel and not nickel silver. Just discussions where some folks were calling them steel. Like this thread here 8th post down AAPK member thawk referred to them as steel.

viewtopic.php?t=20466

This is a schrade walden serial# 00067 with jimped liners. They sure look like brass to me.

Here is one with the SCHRADE stamp that was used in between the SW and schrade+ stamp. Serial #f32112 does not have jimped liners and also look brass to me.

Just to make everyone crazy, here is one with uncle Henry scales but no shield and an LTD stamp. They made a knife like this as a TY Murry commemorative but look closely at the bolsters from one side to the other. One side brass the other stainless. The way it was explained to me is these knives were used at trade shows to demonstrate options for SFO's. Just thought I'd throw this in the mix here. Going back to Dale''s point everyone needs to remember 18 tractor trailers of parts alone left the factory after auction.

Jay that's really cool, I've seen a couple of trade show knives like that, some with different covers on either side too. Those bolsters aren't stainless though, they're nickel silver. Schrade never used stainless bolsters on their folders because the bolsters had to be formed and hollowed in a press, with a tommy on pin formed along with it. Stainless is too hard to use for those purposes.

Schrade never used steel liners on their production folders either, just brass. There may have been an SFO or two along the way with steel liners, but I don't recall ever seeing one and it would have had to have been a pretty substantial number for them to go to the trouble of getting sheet steel of the correct thickness. They got it in huge rolls so I'm sure it wouldn't have been cost effective. There are numerous factors involved with using different metals on a knife. Nickel silver and brass are of similar hardness, so they wear evenly during grinding and buffing. Steel is much harder resulting in uneven removal of material during buffing. This can lead to the liners being higher than the bolsters and covers on the backs and fronts. Steel also gets a lot hotter, which could melt the covers.

Eric