All About Pocket Knives

I know this has been beat to death before, but I saw this on EBay

Is this the new grading system

The following explains the condition grading of knifes;
Mint: a mint knife is one that looks and functions as factory new. ***note that many multi blade knives come directly from the factory with blade rub marks. This seems particularly true for stockman knives***

Near mint/mint: looks and functions just like a factory new knife, but will have a minor flaw that prevents it from being described as mint. Such flaws may include: scratches, in need of polish, a slight rust or corrosion Mark, a very light sharpening etc. these knives generally haven't been used with any regularity but have been out of the box and perhaps even been logged around in a knife roll. Most of the time this quality can be cleaned to mint but not always.

Near mint: a knife that presents very well but that is not new. A great example is to consider a new knife that goes into your pocket and is carried around for a couple of months and is then put away. It will have bounced around next to a set of keys, have a ding and some scratches, possibly has dulled and been lightly resharpened, has been dropped once or has taken a ride in the washer and dryer. It should be difficult to tell if it has been sharpened and should look well cared for.

Excellent: typically this grade definition is used for older knives that have survived in much better than average condition. These knives will have most of the original blades intact, tang stamps will be visible, handles will be very nice and intact. Snap may be soft or softening on the main blade. A slight gap, a slight knick, or very small non loose crack in the handles may be acceptable particularly for stag handles. These knives should function well and retain most of their original beauty. It should be noted that for our purposes here, an excellent 1920's Remington will likely be in slightly poorer overall condition than an excellent 2011 Case. This is primarily true due to being in circulation for 90 years vs. 5 years.

Very good: these knives are survivors, often have been Cleaned or restored to remove rust, or resharpened several times. These knives have likely been carried for many years, but still have life and function. The handles may be faded, slightly chipped, snap might be gone, etc.

Good: the knife functions, but may have a more pronounced flaw or many smaller flaws. These knives have been used. More pronounced pitting should be expected on Carbon steel blades and these knives may be missing legible tang

And who is the "authority" writing this description? Sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking on the part of some seller.

Ken

Ken, here the link. Wishful thinking is right

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172724121671

"Most of the time this quality can be cleaned to mint but not always."


Someone please tell me how this would ever be possible. IMO a cleaned knife can never be a mint condition knife. It may shine brightly and look real enticing but it still won't be mint; it will be a cleaned knife.

Sounds like Voyles grading system. Which in my opinion is much too generous.

peanut740 wrote:Sounds like Voyles grading system. Which in my opinion is much too generous.

Agreed.
I prefer NKCA's grading system personally.

A very similar grading description is used in one of the AAPK stores.

https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... ber_id=190

RalphAlsip wrote:A very similar grading description is used in one of the AAPK stores.

https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... ber_id=190

Jerry I believe those sellers may be one in the same. The 6318pu that is listed on aapk is on ebay under the other name.

Very good; to describe "snap might be gone"? ..... Hooey!!

jlw257 wrote:Ken, here the link. Wishful thinking is right

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172724121671

Larry here's a response I got from this seller after I made an unsolicited offer on a buy it now.
Hello,

If It don't sell for what Im asking, then I would be willing to lower my price.

gsmith7158 wrote:

jlw257 wrote:Ken, here the link. Wishful thinking is right

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172724121671

Larry here's a response I got from this seller after I made an unsolicited offer on a buy it now.
Hello,

If It don't sell for what Im asking, then I would be willing to lower my price.

Greg, To me it either mint or it not.

jlw257 wrote:

gsmith7158 wrote:

jlw257 wrote:Ken, here the link. Wishful thinking is right

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172724121671

Larry here's a response I got from this seller after I made an unsolicited offer on a buy it now.
Hello,

If It don't sell for what Im asking, then I would be willing to lower my price.

Greg, To me it either mint or it not.

Larry thanks to guys like you now I can tell whether it's real and/or mint.

I guess you can use whatever definitions you like. I won't be using these.

I think it better to describe the knife, what you see & feel, rather than use terms such as mint, excellent, etc.
For example instead of 'mint', say "the knife is in the same condition as when it left the factory", or you might say the same but add "except for a few spidery black marks on master blade" for 'near mint'.
The seller describes and the reader decides for himself how to classify the knife.
kj

How about just taking good clear pictures and letting the buyer call it the condition they want to

espn77 wrote:How about just taking good clear pictures and letting the buyer call it the condition they want to

Bingo!

Pictures alone do not tell you anything about blade action (snap & play), but maybe these are not part of 'condition' ?
I know some collectors are interested only in 'looks'. To me function is more important than condition. I don't want even a 'mint' knife if springs are so stiff i have difficulty opening the blades, or if there is blade play.
My question is: does 'condition' include 'blade action' ?
kj

kootenay joe wrote:Pictures alone do not tell you anything about blade action (snap & play), but maybe these are not part of 'condition' ?
I know some collectors are interested only in 'looks'. To me function is more important than condition. I don't want even a 'mint' knife if springs are so stiff i have difficulty opening the blades, or if there is blade play.
My question is: does 'condition' include 'blade action' ?
kj

I think condition should include blade action but like so many things in description this too can be very subjective. I have seen many new knives that had poor function to the point I would not want to own them.

On another not I see this seller has a number of obviously re-handled. He says what the handle material is but makes no mention of the fact the handles are not original. A little smoke and mirror work in my opinion.

I find this topic quite interesting. Grading pocket knives is less like grading a stamp, coin or art and (IMO) is more like concours judging of a vintage automobile. What if all of the elements of a pocket knife (Box, Sheath, Paperwork, Bail, Liners, Backsprings, Blade Action, Length, % Remaining, Tang Stamps, Covers, Shield, Bolsters, Pins, etc.) were scored to a standard and the score was the grade? The problem that I see with the "Pristine Mint to Junk" grading system is subjectivity from one judge to another whereas a numerical system would provide objectivity to each element of the pocket knife.

Thoughts?

Tom, your system would give some needed objectivity but i think it is too 'involved' to catch on. Many of us a bit lazy which is why it is so much easier to just say "mint" or whatever 1 or 2 words that you think sums up the knife.
Would be useful in a scientific type study that was comparing various knives.
kj

[What if all of the elements of a pocket knife... were scored to a standard?]

Interesting idea, but taken to its logical extreme we would soon be sending pocket knives to a third party grader (the Pocketknife Research Institute for Collector Knowledge or PRICK) where they would be scored and forever slabbed in plastic, thereby rendered preserved but useless.

My Soapbox: Grading (coins, baseball cards, comic books, whatever) is another symptom of our society's desire to eliminate risk in all that we do. Instead of studying, learning, and making mistakes we want some expert to tell us the answer so we don't have to figure it out for ourselves. End of Soapbox.

Also, why are we so obsessed with "mintness"? Why can't we just just decide whether a knife speaks to us or not, and if it does then we negotiate with the owner and collectively decide its value? There is nothing inherently wrong with eBay but in my opinion it will never be as fulfilling as a knife show or flea market where you can handle it, hear the owner's stories, and negotiate. In that case both parties have independently assessed condition and value and if it sells both parties are happy and both "won."

Dennis

Roland and Dennis - I'm actually feeling both of your sentiments but I still struggle with one person's "Very Good" and another "Mint". While PRICK had me falling off my chair laughing, I totally agree the encapsulating a pocket knife would be insane. I've put together 2 illustrations of grading 2 different Cub Scout knives using the same objectivity in term of max score. I have both knives in-hand and can see and touch each element of the knife and make a determination on the grade of each element not just an overall impression of the knife.

Once the worksheet was built, it took me about 30 seconds to score each knife which given the greater objectivity, I believe is worth the effort but your mileage may vary. I'm going to fiddle around with this concept some more so any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Tom, I like it. Still gonna be somewhat subjective especially on things like blade condition for example. Like Dennis said though, to me that's part of the fun of the negotiation, especially when you can do it in person, as opposed to eBay. It will require a way to normalize scores for situations like an older knife that came without any box. For example a Case pocket knife from the XX era did not come in an individual box and didn't have a sheath, so the total perfect score couldn't be 112. Rather than a numerical score, a percentage score might work as a way to normalize them. I'll have to think on it - probably make my head hurt!

Ken

I think the grading systems should be and most often are more detailed as the price of the items goes up. A system that is over involved for a $5-$500 item probably wouldn't work out but would be fine for a $75,000 car. Make your own definitions and standards and apply them as you wish. Looks like that's what the writer of the OP standard did. Putting it in print and expecting everyone else to buy into it doesn't work for me in this case.

I just asked him what qualifies him to grade knives that way and why his system differs so much from established guidelines ?