Knife Collection Liquidation

[just bob]

I've been reading the comments by Roland and especially the thrashing he is taking in liquidating his knife collection. For those that have already sold their collections and those that are in the process. What mistakes did you make in building your collections and what advise would you give to others that may start the process soon?

[orvet]

Excellent question Bob!
I am really interested in the responses.

[XX Case XX]

I've been reading the comments by Roland and especially the thrashing he is taking in liquidating his knife collection. For those that have already sold their collections and those that are in the process. What mistakes did you make in building your collections and what advise would you give to others that may start the process soon?

Bob: I'm not sure I understand the part about "Roland taking a thrashing" as well as "his comments". Please elaborate a bit more for me, as well as others, who may wish to post but don't understand the entire story. I think I know what you're getting at but want to be certain before trying to answer your initial question.

__________
Mike

[knife7knut]

Last year I had put out a feeler to several people I knew who were fellow collectors that I was contemplating selling off all of my knives save a few that had family meaning to me. I wanted to sell the accumulation in it's entirety rather than a piece or two at a time.I had no great urgency to sell but did not want to spend the rest of my life selling knives.
Two gentlemen contacted me requesting detailed information on what I had in my collection and an approximate idea of what I was willing to sell it for. Although I didn't know them personally I knew that both had the wherewithal to purchase them.
I spent about a month drawing up a detailed list and submitted them to both parties along with what I wanted to realize. One of them said that the price was beyond his willingness to pay and thanked me for my time. The other person seemed to be very interested and asked if there was any room for negotiation in price. After a little friendly back and forth we came to a figure that was amicable to both of us.Not exactly what I was looking for but I realized I would have to compromise if I wanted to get rid of them all at once.
Sadly the deal did not materialize due to a family situation of the buyer.He profusely apologized and wished he could carry through but it just couldn't happen at the time. I found out later that he was really disappointed in not being able to buy the collection but his situation was on the level.
Since there was no immediate buyer on the horizon I decided not to sell. As to what will happen to it if I should pass before my wife,I had put in place a plan for several close friends to assist my wife in disposing of my many accumulations such as knives,firearms;watches;model car collection(several thousand)and wristwatches(about a hundred).I did this after I was diagnosed with throat cancer in 2001.Fortunately I never had to utilize them although there were a couple times I thought I might.

[big monk]

Who / What is Roland ????

Since I retired two years ago, I have sold most of my knives & invested in guns* -- I still have plenty enough for me -- Case & GEC's were my main target buying / collecting (85% ) -- I did buy other brands, ( that I liked,just to compare* ) but always ended up back with those two brands** -- as for mistakes building my collection,I think my major mistake was falling in love with the Mammoth Ivory / Pre-ban Ivory ""re-handled GEC factory knives that I had customized"" I did not realize that I brought the value "DOWN" because the knife was not ""Factory Original"" any longer** even though the high cost of Ivory slabs + cutlers fees, increased my cost. And with the recent ""Ivory Issue"" I had to bite the bullet on some,but that's all part of the game ** Most all buyers, ( me included ) want an original 100 year old knife ,still in the box, for a few cents more than it cost _________________100 years ago --- As for a mistake collecting,we all make/made mistakes -- when you are collecting the knives you like,want,lust after,can afford,ect. __ selling them never comes into you mine -- you just had to have ""IT"" and ""IT" was the best looking one at the show, that day !!!!

I always saved my boxes,display tins,tubes, ect. so that when I did sell,I put them back,just as they came to me* -- I sold most of my knives on E-Bay ( largest buying market ) -- sold to other collectors ( that I knew from trading / buying ) -- sold a good many to my friends on this site ( most contacted me,to see if I had certain knives they were looking for ) -- ( I always showed the e-bay link,on AAPK,when I was selling ) I was always reluctant to
mention or just sell a knife on AAPK,for fear of asking too much or making a friend mad, so E-Bay bidders would dictate the price for me**

I sold nearly 500 knives in the last three years or so** I strongly advise anyone,to use E-bay / Pay-Pal and ship in small flat rate boxes,if selling higher price knives* ( charge the buyer for the shipping* ) -- less chance of damage / lost in that box**** When listing on e-bay,always take really good photos showing,back,front sides and any flaws or good highlights -- a very good description along with photos noted as ""part of the description"" will get your best prices. Use the Macro Setting on your camera for close-up shots __ I always,took photos outside,early mornings,with a plain background ( nothing in the picture, to take away from the knife ) -- List your knives,a few each week ( maybe 5 or 10 ) -- if you don't have an Ebay store, you get 20 free listings per month ( I did ) --you will get a following looking over your knives each week**

I will leave you my last piece of advice ( before you fall asleep reading all the chatter ) --- when / if you decide to sell your collection??? ____ pick out your 10 best "most favorite knives"", you know the ""Holy Grail / I'll Never Sell This Knife"" ones and sell them first !!!!!! ___ The others,won't even make you blink**** ( well maybe just a bit ) __________I hope someone else will explain this better than I have ^^___ I'm still wanting to know,where I went wrong ____________________ Monk**

[just bob]

My bad here. I thought we were all on a first name basis. Roland is - kootenay joe - aka Roland Proctor that has been selling a bunch of killer knives in the advertisement forum and has been listing the price he paid for them years ago and the price he is willing to sell them for. In many cases it is less than half - hence the thrashing. Maybe I should have posted a link with the op, but you can look in the advertisement forum to see the deals that have been passed on.

[just bob]

Only one example. There are many.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52391

[gsmith7158]

I think that as knife collectors we should realize that the knives that you buy when they are in vogue may very well fall out of favor by the time you wish to sell them. Knives as an investment are a hit and miss proposition but can provide a lifetime of enjoyment. I think Roland already knows that and has many more memories of enjoyment than visions of untold profits. My advise would be to buy what you like and can afford and enjoy them while your other investments build your wealth that is what your after.

[kootenay joe]

I have made many poor decisions with the financial aspect of knives. I really do love pretty well any well made knife so i had no focus in my buying. Until the internet came along to show me that vintage knives in nearly perfect condition do exist, i would often buy knives that had been used ++ with blade loss from repeated sharpening. I might have 1,000 or more knives that while still functional are not particularly collectible because of their condition.
Were i to start over again i would try to get a focus before starting to collect. The focus could be a pattern, a brand, a handle type, or military etc.
Then when buying knives i would not buy heavily used examples. The better the condition the easier it is to sell the knife when the time comes.
Rather than having 8,000-10,000 knives in a range of condition, it would much easier to sell say, 4,000 knives all in excellent condition.
I will post my financial mistakes with custom knives on another day.
k.j. (roland)

[rexstubbins]

So I'm not sure if I completely understand the spirit of this thread but it sounds like how we as collectors can get the most out of our collection. To me personally it is what the market is willing to pay. The best marketplace in my opinion is (sounds like free slay)

I sell on aforementioned site and while not happy about the fees you can conjure up a huge interest for what is in vogue. They also offer protection that you cannot get by selling on other sites for sellers and buyers.

It is really a trade off on peace of mind versus the trust of someone that you think has good intentions. I do like to think that most everyone on AAPK has the same morals but unfortunately we must all be cautious.

[bestgear]

Interesting thread because it covers not only a liquidation strategy but also a collection methodology. My collection started in 1964 when at the ripe old age of 7 my father bought me a Cub Scout knife at Amato's Hobby Shop on Main Street in New Britain Connecticut (still in business today). By then I had already handled (and carried without permission) knives that my father had accumulated from family members that worked at Landers, Frary & Clark and Humason & Beckley. So my influence from an early age was to collect folding Scout knives and New Britain knives and virtually nothing else.

When my son's were born in the mid 90's and became of age, they too joined the Scouting movement and one of them got bit by the knife collecting bug. When that happened, the notion of liquidation came off the table because I had a line of succession for my collection and it opened the door to expanding my collection. Late last year I (we) had the opportunity to purchase the lifetime collection of LF&C and H&B knives, catalogs, store displays, boxes, advertising, etc. The seller didn't inventory the collection but knew he wanted "x" for each knife but was genuinely more interested in keeping the collection together. When I arrived to spend the weekend with him surveying the collection with my son, that sealed the deal and his liquidation was complete.

My son and I have since married-up our collection with the new-found collection and are in the process of parting-out the duplicates on our own website. I know everyone here doesn't have a line of succession in their families which makes me feel truly blessed knowing that I can spend all the days of my life with my collection and that it will be enjoyed for at least one generation beyond me.

[wazu013]

I sold off a large part of my collection, over 1,000 knives, on ebay when I retired10 years ago. It was a fun time and a hard time wrapped in one package. I started every auction at .99 with no reserve and let the market determine the values. For every knife I took a beating on it seemed another one would sell well above its value. On average I more or less broke even. I quit selling on ebay because of their policy changes and I just can't stomach the owner of Paypal. I sold all my switchblades on SharperDeals where most of the buyers know what they want and what they're worth.
I don't actively sell anymore but every now and then someone from the different forum communities will ask to buy one of my knives. If they're willing to pay what I paid I'll make the deal. Of course some knives just aren't for sale.
I still enjoy the hobby so I buy some knives but no where near as many.

[btrwtr]

Both buying and selling can be a very fickle situation.

I often tell collectors that you make money when you buy, not when you sell. By that I mean that you have to buy the knife at a price that will allow you to sell and break or make money. Buying new knives today at full retail in most cases will not allow you to sell at any time in the near future and not lose money. There are exceptions to this but they are few. I am sure there are many here that "wish I knew then what I know now" as applied to changes in the market over the years. Changes are hard to predict and inevitable.

My advice is selling, for what it is worth, would be to not let buyers cherry pick your collection. I am sure many here have knives that are in high demand and worth considerable money. If you let these knives go you will have money in hand but will be left with many knives that are a hard sell. Low demand, low value knives are slow to move and unless you are willing to settle in for the long haul selling these knives could prove arduous. If you can sell your collection at a fair price in whole you are better off.

On another but relative note I became acutely aware of the inflation factor when I retired in 2011 and began selling off the knives that I had previously considered my collection and not for sale. Looking at the notes I have kept since I started collecting in the early eighties I see a knife that I still own that was purchased in April of 1984 for the price of $95. If I were to sell that knife today for $100 and think I made a profit I would be delusional to say the least. When factored for inflation the cost of the knife would be $223.82 today. I have sold my fair share of knives at a loss and I don't buy every knife thinking I am going to make money at some time in the future. I buy them because I like them and I hope I have good value in the knives I buy.

Here is an inflation rate calculator that I use just to keep reality in the game when I sell knives I have owned for some years. http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

In the end we are ll different and what works for one might not work for the next collector. Collect what you like but if you are not willing to take a bath when you sell do your homework.

[kootenay joe]

I do not have the personality to be successful at business. I am very good at spending money but feel too embarrassed or shy to ask for full value when selling. It is a psychological problem. I have sold over 1,000 knives and made a small amount of money on only one, a Hinderer XM-18. I justify these losses as the price of having a hobby. The loss on each knife is the rent i pay for the pleasure of the knife's company.
The best way to loose money on knives is to buy customs from the knife maker. With the vast majority of custom knives you will loose at least 30% when you sell on the secondary market. Sometimes after having a knife for sale for 2 years i eventually sell at a loss of 50% or more. With knives purchased from the maker for up to ~ $1200, a 50% loss is a lot of money.
I watched many custom knife sales by maker on BF. As an example, Ken Erickson might post an exquisite knife for say $900 and it would be bought within hours. This would be followed by many posts saying things like "lucky guy, wish i had seen it first", etc. A few months later the buyer would try to sell the knife and get no takers until he dropped his price to $600 or lower.
If you want to buy custom knives shop the secondary market. These knives are rarely used and almost always are in the same condition as when the knife maker shipped it, and most will sell at a big discount from original price.
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, I just loved this thread. Lots of Fantastic points from everyone which is how we learn and help others!!! Maybe I can add a few more that come to my mind or at least tell you how I evolved along the way.

First let me say I have been in love with pocket knives since I was about 7yrs old and I am 42 now. I really cherish & Loved my first few knives as a boy and I was hooked as a collector at a very young age((I certainly compulsive/obsessive by nature)),,,My father would travel to old Hardware stores during this time of my youth to rid the Hardware stores of their "Knife Display" cases. He then dragged me to "Gun & knife shows" across the south to RE-SELL the knives he found at the hardware stores along the while Looking for Jobs((was a Carpenter by trade)). MARK Wanted to KEEP EVERY KNIFE we found,,,But my pops is 24yrs older than I,,, so his intentions was more focused on putting Food in my mouth, clothes on my back and paying his bills,,, I was focused on the rarity/condition/ Love at first site older vintage knives and I couldnt understand why I couldnt keep all the stuff my father was getting rid of,,,No sooner than he got it,,,I would have it for less than a month or so and I KNEW once my Dad found a buyer,,,The knife would disappear forever from me. I really hated this as I just couldnt understand how my father could sell his Great finds. I remember my pops talking with his Dad about what was popular among collectors. Most dotted 70's model Case knives were only around $15 bucks a piece and he was buying Large Display cases of 100+ knives for around $750-1000. He then would piece the knives out to folks he knew,,at gun knife shows, flea-markets, and His father did the same,,,Kinda a Joint venture many times as they would split the costs & Profits. My Grandpa did gun knife shows in the North from Kentucky, Indiana to Ohio areas,,while my father was in the South around Arkansas/Oklahoma areas. They were covering a Large territory for sure. Finding these older knives were a HOBBY of theirs that they enjoyed on their spare time and was Learning about all along the way,,ALL THE WHILE,,,Making a few xtra bucks on the side. This was NOT a business for them at all,,,but moreover what they enjoyed doing as a hobby and AFTER Working at their NORMAL JOBS!!!

So Now Mark grows up, is 21 or so years old, Becomes married and Has A BABY on the way,,,I am looking for a Career but failed at going to college because of lack of dedication and Time,,Hard to go to college when your working 80hours a week or more. I just wanted to MAKE SOME MONEY to take care of the needs for my family!!! At 21 and driving a semi truck for a living, GIVE ME A GREAT OPPORTUNITY to Continue NOW what I wanted to do ALL ALONG,,,,find old knives in the shadows of the valley of Death. Everywhere I traveled in the Semi truck,,,I would hit flea-markets, Gun & knife shows all across the USA and was buying what I liked and starting to be a lot more involved in which direction to go on Collecting. With my small amount of Extra money I spent on my personal collection of old pocket knives as a love & passion hobby, not for intent to resell. I got to do this for around 15yrs or so BEFORE Quitting the Trucking industry for GOOD!!!

I had NO IDEA what to do for a living now,,,ALL I KNEW is that I wanted to be home with my family because at only seeing them once a month,,,,Just was not happening anymore. I wanted to be a TRUE FATHER Not just some paycheck to my wife and kids. I immediately had to go to my COLLECTION of Pocket knives and sell them,,This was very hurtful to me because I didnt intend to re-sell my personal collection and I knew that I paid too much for a many knives I wanted. I contacted all the guys that I bought the knives from((dealers)) and they really had NO INTEREST in buying the knives back. I finally had to piece most of them out on ebay and here on aapk. I noticed after selling my knives on ebay,,,I would see my knife right back on ebay for sale by a different vendor,,,I am LIKE WHAT??? And that same knife would bring double the $$$. I am like WHAT??? How are these folks doing this?? I wanted my knife to bring top dollar tooo. So I slowly paste myself in Keeping up with finding good bargain knives and listing them on ebay and before Long,,,I started to get a following. The next thing I know, Its near 7yrs later. I am certainly no business man at all,,,far from it. I never ever thought there would be enough money to survive on just by buying/selling/trading old pocket knives. On average, I only make 10-15% profit from the last 6-7yrs. Thats about 10-15k a year income and I have sold around $750k worth on ebay since my beginning,,,You see at around $100k worth of selling knives,,,I end up with 10-15k and thats 10-15% overall average. That happens to be a very poor lifestyle BUT the trade offs are WELL WORTH IT for me. Not only do I get to be HOME all the time for my family, But I get to enjoy my Old knives too. I am actually shocked in what I am able to accomplish by being in the knife world. I find that the Longer I stick around, The more friends/contacts, The better the profits that come with it. I am certainly the last person on earth that thought I would be a dealer in antique knives. Funny how things turn out when You just go with the flow & be who you are.

I hope I didnt bore you guys to death on this lengthy knife drama of my personal life, LMAO. My intentions by posting this is that It might help someone make better decisions if they intend to stay in the knife world.
Kind Regards,
Mark

[stagman]

Sounds as if you are getting ready to start letting go of a few Bob ???
I started back in the 1970's getting serious on a few different knife makers,
mainly Case XX & Marble's knives....but with kids born in 72 & 74, you know how that goes...
thus it made me be really particular in what I was gonna invest in...
Restraint, that was my best asset, being a teenager and out of high school by 1969, you
had to have restraint as to not get mixed up with drugs, alcohol, with all going on around you,
I feel this carried into my knife collecting...Restraint....plus, after 10 yrs in a job shop, got hired at General Motors in 1977...
WOW, what a difference in pay, right when I had a few bucks after kids gone to get serious....
fast forward into the latter 1990's, kids off on their own, more $$$ availible...
heard about 1997-98 that a Stag embargo was coming, guys at work were all buying stocks,,,
laughed their asses off at me saying: I am investing in Stag, Not stocks !!! 30 dollar stockmans, trappers, swing guards, etc. handled in Stag soon became 60-80 and up dollar knives by mid 2000's
At the same time, Jim & Craig Lauerman bought Marble's and re-opened in 1998 after being shut down from 1974... with Mike Stewart heading the knife division, one of the most respected knife guys in the state of Michigan
I became addicted to the 1998-2003 Marble's knives, I feel the best they made in their 111 yr history !!!
Craig sold out to Brinkley in 2003, he started taking the company to China
You could buy em by the ton, Gladstone, Michigan made Stag knives for 35-55 bucks a piece,, and I dog-gone sure did !!!
I went to auctions,and knife shows in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Tenn. Kentucky........
Retired in 2006 from GM and the biggest BOOM for me, after talking to Bryan in late 2005, opened a store on AAPK 1-2-06
Life Changing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAPK has been a Godsend selling off all them Marble's knives I accumulated
And, making several lifelong friends thru sales !!!
So, watching and restraining in the early yrs, then the Marble's deal and Stag invested in, I have done nothing
but have a ball and make very good money on my investments,,, Who's Laughing Now !!!

Will
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/clearcreekknives

[Quick Steel]

kj, I do heartily wish you every success in carrying out your liquidation. But I do hope that will not deprive us too much of your company on AAPK. I have always read and enjoyed you posts.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you but i am not going anywhere. I don't want to sell all my knives. I doubt i could bring myself to do that. I am very attached to so many of them.
I have 4 children, 3 are adults and very busy in their own professional lives in Tanzania, Italy & Calgary and are not interested in knives. For them to dispose of thousands of knives, some being valuable, would be an imposition. I don't want them to be cursing my name as they try to sort through endless cabinets full of knives.
Moreover i need the money. When i should have been saving for retirement years, i was buying knives. So now at age 70 i have no money but lots of knives. I need to sell some knives every month to handle regular household bills. When a bigger expense comes along like new water heater, 4 new tires, etc. (on & on, never stops) then i have to try to sell quite a few knives quickly. The way to do this is to be happy with prices low enough that others can't resist a good deal. I do 'loose' money on every deal, but i am having fun. I lost about $200,000 on the stock market in 2008 and that wasn't any fun. Way better to loose money selling knives, and you make friends as well.
kj

[Lansky1]

wow - I'm amazed at the volume of knives some of our members here have managed to collect over the years. I don't have quite a 100 yet & thought I was doing pretty good. I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut compared to you guys

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Roland, Loved your story!!! I too lost my Trucking business around 2008. I owned my own Trucking Company and was incorporated(((Company name was Diamondback, Inc. Pictures below))) with only 1-Semi Truck and 1 Trailer,,Hoping to add more trucks later on,,,On paper My wife was President and I was vice President, LMAO!!! We went through brokers to get our loads. Fuel prices went too over $4 bucks a gallon and All within 6-9 months I was in the whole $30,000 cash of my own money PLUS in-debt for the Truck & Trailer that I bought. Basically, I worked for nearly 6-9months of my life at around 100hours a week for FREE and lost all my savings to boot,,,I was so bummed out,,,I just couldn't hold out and other companies like Walmart, JB Hunt, Schneider, Werner Enterprises, Tyson, Etc... Were still pulling loads for a $1.00 a mile while it costs more than that just in Fuel costs for me. I sure did learn my lesson,,,I was destined to do what I am doing right now which I will consider a Blessing from the Lord. Just to know YOU Personally and MANY Great other knife guys,,,Gives me the strength to continue on LOVING LIFE & old antique knives. Life is a Big Learning lesson for us all.

In order to get back on my feet again after bankruptcy and losing all my savings,,,,EXCEPT MY KNIFE COLLECTION,,,, I had to go back to work as a driver for the SAME Company that I quit to go into business for myself,,,As a failure, My head was down and everyone just laughed at me. I continued to work for that company for another couple years to Rebuild my savings and then I quit for Good and then I sold my knife collection and Combined all my Assets and made a Major move to downgrade my lifestyle and We moved from Arkansas to Minnesota.

I have always been called Rattlesnake and it was my CB handle when I started driving at age 16. About 6yrs earlier, My Father took me to a Rattlesnake hunt in Oklahoma in the 80's and this is where I ate Rattlesnake meat for the 1st time. I got a T-shirt that said,,,I SURVIVED The Mangum, OK Rattlesnake Hunt and so History was made, LMAO!!! The name just stuck with me over the years, hahahah
Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Mark, are the last 2 pics of Shana & yourself ?
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Roland,,,YES SIR!!!!!!
Kind Regards,
mark