All About Pocket Knives

I don’t like the looks of this one. Is it just me, or is this mstorm again? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-Wi ... Sw8d5fuwtB

If so that’s at least the third name he’s using.

Ken

I often don't know or see what you guys are talkin' about, but this time maybe. let me know if I'm right.
The most obvious thing to me is the tangs look old and worn but the blades look new, so probably welded on. Then maybe the stag is a little thick. The pins are a bit ragged, and the hinge pin does not sit smooth on either side. Thanks
Bruce

Ken, it looks to be the same hand with ring on 4th digit. What is the other name besides "mstorm" ?
kj

Help us out Ken, I don't see it either and I'm not on eBay enough to know one dealer from another.
Thanks.

Sorry I don’t recall the second seller name he used. He is from Tucson, AZ, posts pictures holding the knife in hand, and has been the subject of numerous posts here on AAPK. If this is him he’s changed the background in his pictures. Here’s one of the prior threads about the seller. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=67398It A search here for mstorm will find other posts as he has been a frequent target in the Counterfeits forum.

Unfortunately the older listings under previous seller names have disappeared from eBay, and the AAPK store he had briefly has apparently been closed.

As for this knife itself, it’s mostly the “6th sense” you get after having looked at a lot of knives. Any time I see a hundred year old knife with full, or nearly full, blades, my s**t detector comes on, so closer examination is warranted. Examine the picture closely, you’ll see lines across the blades (from spine to edge) similar to more modern stainless steel knives. In this case it may be from a buffer but in any case not what I’d expect on an honest Wilbert (Napanoch). Then add in the bolster pin, seller suspicion, and I conclude “I don’t like the looks of this one.”

The knife may be okay, and a Wilbert expert may say so. For reasons stated above, I’m suspicious. Caveat emptor!

Ken

As to the OP "Wilbert" knife, look at the the way that the blades are stamped out and ground - flat no swedges - looks like blades from a modern knife, to me it looks like a Kissing Crane. Look up some Kissing Crane stock knives and you will see what I mean.

On a knife that old the blades would have been forged, with swedges, and most likely a checkered long pull, totally different look.

The stag on the knife is nice looking, but does not look like stag that would have been used on a knife from the early 20th century - also the fact that companies like Wilbert almost never used stag.

Thanks Steve, for putting words to my “sixth sense”. It just doesn’t look to me like a hundred year old knife. You explained it well.

Ken

There's no way that shield is original - 100 years old with sharp edges and corners and sitting proud? Nope.

The "6th sense" is difficult to explain but is quite reliable. Somehow with an original 100 year old knife the various parts look as though they belong together. With a fake knife the parts have not been together for a long time and they seem like individual parts rather than giving the sense of a 'whole' knife.
We get into 'trouble' if we talk ourselves into buying a knife that on first look does not seem 'quite right'. It is important to listen to your '6th sense'.
kj

kootenay joe wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:19 pm The "6th sense" is difficult to explain but is quite reliable. Somehow with an original 100 year old knife the various parts look as though they belong together. With a fake knife the parts have not been together for a long time and they seem like individual parts rather than giving the sense of a 'whole' knife.
We get into 'trouble' if we talk ourselves into buying a knife that on first look does not seem 'quite right'. It is important to listen to your '6th sense'.
kj

Well said Roland.

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 pm There's no way that shield is original - 100 years old with sharp edges and corners and sitting proud? Nope.

I wouldn't use a proud shield as a gauge for authenticity. Most old stag and jigged bone knives had proud pinned shields. Some more so than others depending on the depth of the jigging or bumpiness of the stag. You couldn't set the surface of the shield any lower than the highest part of handle or you'd grind into the bone or stag when you ground off the pin head.

Making certain that the shield is pinned is a better gauge of age.

They do look like mstorm knives. He had a tendency to scotchbrite the blades to death.

Eric

Am I the only one to notice the crack across the mark side stag or did I miss reading that in a post?
Treefarmer

I agree that the blade (or blades) look like they have been welded onto Wilbert tangs. When you magnify the image, the grinder marks down at the tang are deeper and run at a slightly different angle than the rest of the blade. The lack of swedges and flat grind as mentioned are also suspicious. Also the choil on each blade is different. Would that also be an indicator?

ea42 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:40 pm

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 pm There's no way that shield is original - 100 years old with sharp edges and corners and sitting proud? Nope.

I wouldn't use a proud shield as a gauge for authenticity. Most old stag and jigged bone knives had proud pinned shields. Some more so than others depending on the depth of the jigging or bumpiness of the stag. You couldn't set the surface of the shield any lower than the highest part of handle or you'd grind into the bone or stag when you ground off the pin head.

Making certain that the shield is pinned is a better gauge of age.

They do look like mstorm knives. He had a tendency to scotchbrite the blades to death.

Eric

My point was the combination of a proud shield and sharp edges & corners on that shield. When the shield is proud, the edges & corners will become rounded over time. The condition of the scales, bolsters & lining show this knife is not new, yet the shield looks new.

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:11 am I don’t like the looks of this one. Is it just me, or is this mstorm again? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-Wi ... Sw8d5fuwtB

If so that’s at least the third name he’s using.

Ken

Ken,I believe you are correct. This is at least the 3rd name he had sold under.The 2nd didn't last long.

This picture of my Wilbert two blade jack may help you make a decision about authenticity when comparing the two clip blades.
This blade has a swedge and long pull from the swedge down to the tang. The shield does sit a little proud on one side. The pins are not spun.
I would be suspicious of the OP knife. Steve B.

Notice the difference between the shield in the OP and the shield in Steve’s post. Steve shield is very narrow on the bottom compared to the OP shield. It reminds me very much of the shape of the shields Camillus Used on many of their composition handles. They had the much wider belly in the shield at the bottom and they were attached by tabs at the bottom center and at the upper corners . The tabs were pushed into the handle material when it was soft or cast into the handle material . I'm not sure exactly how they did it but there were tabs at the corner that went into and oftentimes through the handle material.

I think the shield is from a celluloid handled Camillus. I have seen the shield with the Larger, rounder bottom on other knives, but I believe a good number of them were contract knives made by Camillus.

Is this seller a member here? I thought he was and had a store here also? Mike

galvanic1882 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:30 pm Is this seller a member here? I thought he was and had a store here also? Mike

Yes, assuming it is the seller formerly known as “mstorm” he’s still a member but his AAPK store is empty. eBay says mstorm is no longer a registered member there. Has no recent AAPK posts but checked in here as recent as today. Here’s an earlier post that some will remember viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58687. The thread is interesting - asked for a value for insurance purposes, got an estimate, then posted the knife for sale on eBay.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:23 pm

galvanic1882 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:30 pm Is this seller a member here? I thought he was and had a store here also? Mike

Yes, assuming it’s the seller formerly known as “mstorm” he’s still a member but his AAPK store is empty. eBay says mstorm is no longer a registered member there. Has no recent AAPK posts but checked in here as recent as today. Here’s an earlier post that some will remember viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58687. The thread is interesting - asked for a value for insurance purposes, got an estimate, then posted the knife for sale on eBay.

Ken

Thanks Ken I thought it was the same person Mike

Seems to me this "mstorm" person knows vintage USA knives quite well and is a skilled 'knife mechanic' or employs a knife mechanic.
kj

Yes the same seller that has sold so many fakes and reworks under at least two other eBay selling names. The names have been changed to hide the guilty. He could be selling the grail and as I have said before I refuse willingly to put my money in the pocket of a crook.

btrwtr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:20 pm Yes the same seller that has sold so many fakes and reworks under at least two other eBay selling names. The names have been changed to hide the guilty. He could be selling the grail and as I have said before I refuse willingly to put my money in the pocket of a crook.

Ditto

Is this the same guy now in Maine??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antiqu ... 1438.l2649

The ring on his 4th digit is not the gold band that "mstorm" always showed. Also in this seller's other listings he is not wearing a ring. Many of his knives have too high asking prices. Also i think i can see minor differences in the finger creases between mstorm's hand and the hand of this seller. However this could be due to differences in picture exposure or focus ?
Do you see anything suspicious on the IXL Horseman's knife ?
kj