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Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:06 am
by Clark23
I have this Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark, NJ Moose, anyone with experience please if you can tell me if the scales are stag or bone? I have seen where the Boker made ones started in 1916 some of the knives stated they were stag and I wanted to know if anyone has a idea if they always made their knives even before boker took over with stag or not. The scales are pretty pocket worn but appears stag to me. TIA
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:43 am
by knife7knut
Looks like bone to me. Nice knife!
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:01 am
by treefarmer
Just lookin' at that fine knife makes me drool!
I'll have to go with k7k on saying the handle look like bone. My logic is stag is usually not jigged because of its natural surface provides "grip" for the user.
Whatever it is it's a mighty fine-looking knife! I use a moose pattern ever now and then and have several "moose" knives but nothing from that era.
Treefarmer
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:32 am
by Clark23
treefarmer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:01 am
Just lookin' at that fine knife makes me drool!
I'll have to go with k7k on saying the handle look like bone. My logic is stag is usually not jigged because of its natural surface provides "grip" for the user.
Whatever it is it's a mighty fine-looking knife! I use a moose pattern ever now and then and have several "moose" knives but nothing from that era.
Treefarmer
Thanks for your opinion, it matters. I see you say jigged and I know what you mean. But I have seen a partial AD or maybe a page from a Valley forge knives that were boker and they marked their knives as stag on a few and they were jigged. Thanks again
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:34 am
by Clark23
knife7knut wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:43 am
Looks like bone to me. Nice knife!
Thanks for your opinion. I’d attach something I found online see what you may think. The page I seen of a few knives of genome that boker started stated on few of the knives that they were stag and wasn’t sure if they always were and just carried on.
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:35 am
by Clark23
Clark23 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:32 am
treefarmer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:01 am
Just lookin' at that fine knife makes me drool!
I'll have to go with k7k on saying the handle look like bone. My logic is stag is usually not jigged because of its natural surface provides "grip" for the user.
Whatever it is it's a mighty fine-looking knife! I use a moose pattern ever now and then and have several "moose" knives but nothing from that era.
Treefarmer
Thanks for your opinion, it matters. I see you say jigged and I know what you mean. But I have seen a partial AD or maybe a page from a Valley forge knives that were boker and they marked their knives as stag on a few and they were jigged. So wasn’t sure if they all were stag before boker took over. I’d ad that what I found. Thanks again
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:40 am
by Clark23
Clark23 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:34 am
knife7knut wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:43 am
Looks like bone to me. Nice knife!
Thanks for your opinion. I’d attach something I found online see what you may think. The page I seen of a few knives of genome that boker started stated on few of the knives that they were stag and wasn’t sure if they always were and just carried on.
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:07 pm
by treefarmer
Clark23,
I think we have to recognize the advertising in those days was not as accurate as it could have been and that they took some "liberties" with the words describing the great knives they produced. My experience in this comes from following Queen knives, some their old catalogs describe the obviously jigged bone handles as "Genuine Bone Stag", another place I noticed the well-known Winterbottom bone is referred to as "Genuine Frontier Bone Stag". Some of our folks are experts at identifying the various styles of jigging that have been and are still being used by knife manufacturers may be able to shed more light on this topic.
Hope this helps a bit.
Treefarmer
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:16 pm
by knifeaholic
There is a lot that could be written about this, but in the "old days" even up to the 1960's, the term "stag" was a generic "catchall" term that knife companies used, virtually always to describe jigged bone. There were variations including "stagged", "stag type", "improved stag" and others.
To make it even more confusing, when synthetic materials started to be used in place of jigged bone, these same "stag" terms were still used.
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:23 pm
by 1967redrider
The only jigged stag that comes to mind is the Remington used one. You have an awesome looking VF!
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:57 pm
by edge213
Definitely jigged bone.
Knifeaholics response was spot on...as usual.
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:25 pm
by wlf
Everything has been absolutely true, except the advertising.
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:15 pm
by Clark23
treefarmer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:07 pm
Clark23,
I think we have to recognize the advertising in those days was not as accurate as it could have been and that they took some "liberties" with the words describing the great knives they produced. My experience in this comes from following Queen knives, some their old catalogs describe the obviously jigged bone handles as "Genuine Bone Stag", another place I noticed the well-known Winterbottom bone is referred to as "Genuine Frontier Bone Stag". Some of our folks are experts at identifying the various styles of jigging that have been and are still being used by knife manufacturers may be able to shed more light on this topic.
Hope this helps a bit.
Treefarmer
Thank you very much Tree for clearing it up and giving a explanation of things for me to know. It’s definitely helped me! Thank you again
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:18 pm
by Clark23
knifeaholic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:16 pm
There is a lot that could be written about this, but in the "old days" even up to the 1960's, the term "stag" was a generic "catchall" term that knife companies used, virtually always to describe jigged bone. There were variations including "stagged", "stag type", "improved stag" and others.
To make it even more confusing, when synthetic materials started to be used in place of jigged bone, these same "stag" terms were still used.
Thank you very much for helping clear the air on this, between you and tree have gave me very informative information. Thanks again
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:19 pm
by Clark23
edge213 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:57 pm
Definitely jigged bone.
Knifeaholics response was spot on...as usual.
Thank you edge
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:21 pm
by Clark23
1967redrider wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:23 pm
The only jigged stag that comes to mind is the Remington used one. You have an awesome looking VF!
Oh cool, I’d have to keep that in that in mind. Thank you!
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:21 pm
by Clark23
wlf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:25 pm
Everything has been absolutely true, except the advertising.
Sounds great and thank you
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:30 pm
by stumpstalker
Knifaholic:
In your list, when you cite “improved stag” would that be the same thing as what some call “2nd cut stag”.
A color plate photo example of a Case Congress knife with this handle material can be seen on page 257 of the AMERICAN PREMIUM GUIDE to KNIVES and RAZORS, 5th Edition.
Jim Sargent also provided a definition on page 16: “Second-cut Stag – pieces of stag with little or no character or grooves that have been specially jigged and dyed to give the material a stronger stag appearance”.
Bernard Levine also uses the term on page 25 of his GUIDE TO KNIVES, 3rd Edition.
Another question: Even under a jeweler’s loupe, can one distinguish the normally used cow shin bone handle material from the presumably rare 2nd cut stag?
Re: Valley Forge Cutlery Co. Newark,NJ “Moose”
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:20 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
That’s a beautiful old knife and a great working man’s pattern.
Robeson referred to their jigged bone as “Bone Stag” for many yesrs. They did use some genuine stag, but on a very limited number of patterns, probably only about a dozen or so out of the hundreds of patterns they produced.
