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Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:09 am
by zed6309
Ok guys I know there are a few members who like this design, I’ve hovered over this one for a few years now as the old ones are very expensive and beyond rare in the uk , so this is my question to anyone who owns the original knife , so after seeing the patent sketch and the name safety folder my thinking is the folding guard locks the blade at the bottom of the blade completely locking it , but on the reproduction it locks on the half stop position ? There is a bit of tension before it closes to the half stop but not much , the backspring is stiff so it’s pretty solid feeling , it’s actually a nicely put together knife , I didn’t buy it as a collectors item but to use as I like testing old designs, so what’s peoples thoughts on the design and the lock
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:38 pm
by zed6309
I’ve noticed in some pics that the swing guards top looks different, more ramped instead of flat ?
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:32 pm
by 1967redrider
Paul, that top picture in the trio looks like part of the guard has been cut away. I will look in Dunathan's book when I get home, but I don't think it was made like that. The bottom two are definitely the two guard variations.
Webster had a great design for a useful folding hunting knife in my opinion. And his other outdoors products were awesome as well.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm
by ea42
Paul if I understand your question correctly you're asking if the knife was designed to lock at the half stop? That's just a result of the tang corners being equidistant from the pin. The tangs are designed this way so the spring is flush at close, open, and half stop. This would make almost (but not quite) a square tang, so theoretically the lock would engage on all three sides of the tang. The lock wasn't designed with this in mind of course, it was solely designed to lock the blade in the open position.
Eric
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:43 pm
by zed6309
1967redrider wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:32 pm
Paul, that top picture in the trio looks like part of the guard has been cut away. I will look in Dunathan's book when I get home, but I don't think it was made like that. The bottom two are definitely the two guard variations.
Webster had a great design for a useful folding hunting knife in my opinion. And his other outdoors products were awesome as well.
Thanks mate I appreciate it , that guard does look odd tbh’s
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:45 pm
by zed6309
ea42 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm
Paul if I understand your question correctly you're asking if the knife was designed to lock at the half stop? That's just a result of the tang corners being equidistant from the pin. The tangs are designed this way so the spring is flush at close, open, and half stop. This would make almost (but not quite) a square tang, so theoretically the lock would engage on all three sides of the tang. The lock wasn't designed with this in mind of course, it was solely designed to lock the blade in the open position.
Eric
Cheers Eric , I mean should it completely lock in the open position as it only stops on the half stop and was wondering if this is normal for one this design, and two this reproduction
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:25 pm
by zed6309
I’m not sure if YT links work here but on this video you can see it folds up on the half stop only ,
https://youtu.be/gQ8Z4TJHs1c?si=u8m9PVVWbPUKlDzE
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:29 pm
by zed6309
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:31 pm
by zed6309
zed6309 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:29 pm
zed6309 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:25 pm
I’m not sure if YT links work here but on this video you can see it folds up on the half stop only , 4mins 13secs to in
Links not working
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:32 pm
by zed6309
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:33 pm
by zed6309
Above seemed to work , 4mins 13secs to in
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:09 pm
by 1967redrider
Paul, are you referring to using the guard to lock the blade in the half-stop position as opposed to the fully open position?
When mine are locked closed in the fully open position, the blade will not close even 1/16th of an inch.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:37 pm
by 1967redrider
This Parker, made in Chattanooga, Japan locks open tightly too. Glad I remembered where I stashed it.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:56 pm
by zed6309
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:05 am
by ea42
zed6309 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:45 pm
ea42 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm
Paul if I understand your question correctly you're asking if the knife was designed to lock at the half stop? That's just a result of the tang corners being equidistant from the pin. The tangs are designed this way so the spring is flush at close, open, and half stop. This would make almost (but not quite) a square tang, so theoretically the lock would engage on all three sides of the tang. The lock wasn't designed with this in mind of course, it was solely designed to lock the blade in the open position.
Eric
Cheers Eric , I mean should it completely lock in the open position as it only stops on the half stop and was wondering if this is normal for one this design, and two this reproduction
Ahh now I see what you mean, I thought you meant that you can close the lock and lock the blade when it's in the half stop position LOL. As redrider said you shouldn't be able to close it from the open position to the half stop when the blade is locked in. That's definitely a flaw in your reproduction model. Might be how it was actually designed too. Some of these companies would rather have a repro
look like an original rather than have it actually work like one. We did a prototype at Canal Street that locked up like it was a fixed blade, you couldn't budge that blade. The original Marbles were like that too.
Eric
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:55 am
by zed6309
ea42 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:05 am
zed6309 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:45 pm
ea42 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm
Paul if I understand your question correctly you're asking if the knife was designed to lock at the half stop? That's just a result of the tang corners being equidistant from the pin. The tangs are designed this way so the spring is flush at close, open, and half stop. This would make almost (but not quite) a square tang, so theoretically the lock would engage on all three sides of the tang. The lock wasn't designed with this in mind of course, it was solely designed to lock the blade in the open position.
Eric
Cheers Eric , I mean should it completely lock in the open position as it only stops on the half stop and was wondering if this is normal for one this design, and two this reproduction
Ahh now I see what you mean, I thought you meant that you can close the lock and lock the blade when it's in the half stop position LOL. As redrider said you shouldn't be able to close it from the open position to the half stop when the blade is locked in. That's definitely a flaw in your reproduction model. Might be how it was actually designed too. Some of these companies would rather have a repro
look like an original rather than have it actually work like one. We did a prototype at Canal Street that locked up like it was a fixed blade, you couldn't budge that blade. The original Marbles were like that too.
Canal Street safety knife prototype.jpg
Canal Street safety knife prototype 2.jpg
Eric
Thanks Eric , yeah definitely a flaw and a shame as I’ve hovered over this knife for a few years before finally deciding to buy it, I’ll try and rectify it myself , might make a whole new guard but make it correctly
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:34 am
by zed6309
Here is a photo showing the gap
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:15 pm
by 1967redrider
Yeah, that's not good. But thanks for posting.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:26 pm
by zed6309
1967redrider wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:15 pm
Yeah, that's not good. But thanks for posting.
I’m thinking I could take it apart and re drill another hole to set it higher, alter it so it snaps correctly and remove material from in the groove for the blade to rest in closed , if that all makes sense lol , or add material to the guard , that would be easier but would be more noticeable, I’ll have a think
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:04 pm
by ea42
Wow Paul that's crazy, no wonder it doesn't lock! The new hole idea might work but there's a good chance you won't have enough space to drill a second hole without infringing on the first. If that's the case you might be able to fill that hole in before you drill a new one. Definitely worth a try. You could also try to find a welder who could build the end out a bit after which you could grind it down to fit, or you could trace that part out on a piece of steel and make a slightly longer version yourself. Lots of unnecessary work that could have been completely avoided if they'd designed the knife correctly.
Eric
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:39 pm
by zed6309
ea42 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:04 pm
Wow Paul that's crazy, no wonder it doesn't lock! The new hole idea might work but there's a good chance you won't have enough space to drill a second hole without infringing on the first. If that's the case you might be able to fill that hole in before you drill a new one. Definitely worth a try. You could also try to find a welder who could build the end out a bit after which you could grind it down to fit, or you could trace that part out on a piece of steel and make a slightly longer version yourself. Lots of unnecessary work that could have been completely avoided if they'd designed the knife correctly.
Eric
Cheers Eric , yeah I agree that it’s a lot of unnecessary work , I was thinking about JB weld and using it to basically glue a bit of steel on the guard and then grinding till it works , I’ve used JB weld years back to fill a home on a cylinder head on one of my old motorbikes and it lasted for about 2yrs and then I scrapped the bike , tbh’s the hole was still filled
might be the easier option as this isn’t a expensive knife so worth a go
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:38 pm
by 1967redrider
Even the Chattanooga Japanese did a better job than that.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:05 pm
by zed6309
1967redrider wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:38 pm
Even the Chattanooga Japanese did a better job than that.
It’s a shame as the knife in general is well made , this is just basic engineering
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:27 am
by 1967redrider
zed6309 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:05 pm
1967redrider wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:38 pm
Even the Chattanooga Japanese did a better job than that.
It’s a shame as the knife in general is well made , this is just basic engineering
Yeah, design flaw.
Re: Marbles safety folder ?
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:45 am
by Modern Slip Joints
I've handled a half dozen SMKW Chinese Marbles Safety Folders. Locked open none of them had the gap between the pivoting edge cover locking bar and the blade tang that zed6309's has. Unless he wants the repair project because he enjoys it as a hobby then if he lived in the USA a warranty complaint would make more sense. SMKW wants their customers happy but I don't know about the overseas shipping or England's knife laws.
I did not know Parker sold a Safety Folder copy. Thank-you for showing it.
wow guys thank you so much , it’s locking when fully open , mine closes down to the half stop position, so obviously something there doing wrong , I’ll not bother sending it back as I’ll rectify this myself by adding material up the back of the guard so it locks properly, I’ve seen in videos it closing with the guard up so it’s definitely a issue, how they can get that wrong I’ll never know , thanks again for all the info and pictures , beautiful knives guys