CASE BROTHERS....NOT!!!

[98src]

I don't think this one is good.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354002049061?h ... SwxxpiUukF

[Mumbleypeg]

I agree. Cold stamped. Possibly made from a Utica jack.

Ken

[olderdogs1]

Definitely not right. As Ken stated! Cold stamped. Also a genuine vintage Case Bros Knife will never have a shield that says Case.

Tom

[beresman]

Can you please explain to me "cold stamped" (I think it may be self-explanatory, but I don't know what the other options are and the fine points on how to tell the difference).

Thanks!

[rea1eye]

I am no expert but it seems to me there is warping of metal around the lettering
when the cold stamp process is used. The immediate surfaces next to the lettering
during a hot stamp are lying completely flat.

I think the intense pressure required for cold stamping causes the immediate
surrounding surface to "pucker".

Looking forward to a better explanation to follow.

Bob

[KleenCut61]

Sure looks delicious Must be That Bone

[Mumbleypeg]

First let me emphasize the stamp is the last thing I look at when trying to determine a knife’s authenticity. You can usually spot a fake from other things, like in the case of the OP knife, having a shield it shouldn’t have, and the tang shaved. Stamps are often difficult if not impossible to tell, especially if the knife is worn. Look for other clues first, then if all else fails examine the stamps. IMHO too many people try to determine a knife’s authenticity from looking at its stamps first, when there are more obvious and easier clues available. Case used hundreds of different stamps - even the “same” stamp had to be made for different sizes of blades. Stamps wear down with use, so the exact same stamping tool left a slightly different impression the last time it was used versus the first time. When the stamp wore out or broke a new one was made - almost assuredly different than the prior one it replaced. I’ve seen folks on this forum say they thought a knife was fake because the stamp looked “different” than the one in the book - the “C” was too far over the “A” or came down too far, or……….

Having said all that, Bob is on the right track. When a cold stamp is applied there is metal “mashed out” and up around the letters. An authentic stamp appears cut into the metal, not mashed into it. Think of pushing a spoon round-side down into mashed potatoes - you’ll see mashed potatoes pushed up and outward around the edges of the spoon. Then turn the spoon so it goes in edge first and dip out some mashed potatoes - you’ll see a smooth divot cut out by the spoon.

I enlarged the seller’s pictures below, and also enlarged the stamp on a couple of authentic Tested era knives. If you look closely at the areas around letters the differences should be apparent. Note also the end corners of letters like “T”, “E”, and “X”. On a cold stamp the end corners are rounded, whereas on an authentic stamp the corners are squared.

Last but not least compare the shoulder grind lines where the grind meets the spine. Where the tang has been grinded down (shaved) to remove the original stamp, the shoulder grind line near the spine has been removed - a sign that metal was removed from the tang. The tang shoulder grind line should extend all the way from edge to spine.

Ken

Cold stamped letters

[Brumbydownunder]

Enlighten me please someone ?
I can't see any profit in forging a knife that would probably sell for less than $100 (Guess)
Someone had to either source an old genuine stamp or have one made which wouldn't be cheap.
Then find a donor knife & blank blades add a 'Case' shield then put the whole thing together.
That is a whole heap of trouble/work to go to for just a few dollars. (Or is there a lot of profit in it?)

Anyone with those sorts of skills could probably make a mighty fine custom knife What is the point of it all?

[1967redrider]

I think an original Case Bros. knife in this pattern would be over the $100+ mark, especially in today's market.

[Mumbleypeg]

Enlighten me please someone ?
I can't see any profit in forging a knife that would probably sell for less than $100 (Guess)
Someone had to either source an old genuine stamp or have one made which wouldn't be cheap.
Then find a donor knife & blank blades add a 'Case' shield then put the whole thing together.
That is a whole heap of trouble/work to go to for just a few dollars. (Or is there a lot of profit in it?)

Anyone with those sorts of skills could probably make a mighty fine custom knife What is the point of it all?

A quick look at ebay sold listings of original Case Brothers knives (exclude the Case “Family Brands” and Case Select reproductions) will find them selling for typically $200 to $400+. Even the Case Classics reproduction versions are $150 -$250. Not a bad return for a newer $30-$40 knife and a couple hours work. There’s sunk cost of tools and tooling (stamps) but my theory is there’s a limited few places turning out the fakes - anecdotal evidence says located somewhere in the Kentucky/Tennessee area. So amortize the tooling cost over hundreds of fakes produced.

I agree a person with such skill could probably make custom knives. Maybe they do, and the fakes are just a sideline activity. But most likely not so. To be a successful custom knife maker is not easy. There are hundreds of them, many doing it part time (sorta like the old saying that a successful farmer is one who has a wife with a good job in town ). But most of them who are well known and successful have spent years building a reputation. It (custom knives) strikes me as “a labor of love” rather than a way to get rich. I have nothing but admiration for skilled custom makers. JMO

Ken

[peanut740]

Also Case Brothers NEVER stamped "Case Tested XX" in an oval on the tang.They did stamp"Tested XX" in a straight line on some.

[olderdogs1]

Also Case Brothers NEVER stamped "Case Tested XX" in an oval on the tang.They did stamp"Tested XX" in a straight line on some.

Roger is correct. The Oval Tested Stamp wasn’t used until 1915 after W R Case & Sons purchased the XX trademark from Case Brothers shortly before Case Bros closed shop.

Tom

[Brumbydownunder]

Thanks Ken for the informative reply. I guess I forget there are 330Million of you in the States and a sizable knife buying population
There's only 26 Million of us Aussies in a country the same size.
We kind of like it that way with plenty of elbow room

[Mumbleypeg]

Here’s another one, obviously produced by the same crook. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363796970764?h ... SwbNdiQNb6.

In this listing the seller says the first buyer cancelled saying it is a fake (it is!). So the seller has listed it again!

Ken

[olderdogs1]

The OP knife is up to $243.00. Someone is fixing to get burned big time.

Tom

[zzyzzogeton]

Here’s another one, obviously produced by the same crook. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363796970764?h ... SwbNdiQNb6.

In this listing the seller says the first buyer cancelled saying it is a fake (it is!). So the seller has listed it again!

Ken

Well, then that's on the bidders. If the seller states (and he does) that it sold and was returned as being counterfeit, and he advertises it as such, the seller is in the clear. Especially since he made a secondary comment that a long time colledtor (probably one of us here) again told him it is fake.

Sometimes, "caveat emptor" signs included, some buyers are suckers.

[Mumbleypeg]

Here’s another one, obviously produced by the same crook. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363796970764?h ... SwbNdiQNb6.

In this listing the seller says the first buyer cancelled saying it is a fake (it is!). So the seller has listed it again!

Ken

Well, then that's on the bidders. If the seller states (and he does) that it sold and was returned as being counterfeit, and he advertises it as such, the seller is in the clear. Especially since he made a secondary comment that a long time colledtor (probably one of us here) again told him it is fake.

Sometimes, "caveat emptor" signs included, some buyers are suckers.

Truly amazing - despite the seller clearly stating they believe the knife may be a fake, the bidding is now up to $145!

You can’t fix stupid.

Ken

[tvic]

I just gotta say how much I appreciate you, Ken, and everyone else on here. You just don’t know how valuable this information is to someone who’s relatively new to the hobby - especially as I’m looking at getting an older Case knife for my collection. Reading this thread makes me feel like I’m getting a free graduate course in knife collecting!

[EC_Snooker]

OP Knife sold for $315

[Mumbleypeg]

It’s baaaack! Again. (See the second knife in this thread, apparently made by the same criminal as the first one) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... +&_sacat=0

Seller sold it once as being legit. Knife was returned for refund due to being a counterfeit. Seller listed it again saying it was returned because the buyer said it was a counterfeit. Then even added that a long-time collector (I think someone here) confirmed it to be counterfeit. But some fool bought it for a high price anyway. Apparently it was returned again.

So here it is listed yet again, this time the seller says several people have told them it’s a fake so it’s being sold as such. It will be interesting to see what it sells for this time - if it’s cheap enough I’m betting it turns up still again, but the next seller will be one of the shysters who live off selling fakes.

Ken

[1967redrider]

That thing should be thrown in the river.