Why Ebay is probably not a good place for price discovery

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Been thinking about posting this here for some time. When someone asks about the price of a knife, one common answer is to check eBay’s sold listings to find the price range, which can be extreme at times.
Here is a list of reasons NOT to rely on that for price discovery.
1, EBay does not treat all sellers the same. Those with higher volumes can have much better prices on auctions than someone who has little to no experience selling. That translates to lower prices for many small sellers and thus not a good indication of the true price on identical items.
2, EBay’s algorithm might actually hide items from view. Just a word in the title can get this shown in the wrong brand. For example someone misspells Robeson and spells it Robertson, good luck finding it. About the only people who will see it are people that look at “sellers other items” and discover it that way. So you won’t get as many bidders on your knife if only a handful of people see it.
3, EBay’s Indexing policy can throw off the timing of an auction. Ebay states that items can take up to 24 hours to show, even though you got an email showing that it is listed. With that time delay some auctions may end at odd times, even though you put it up at 8:00 and you think it will end in 7 days at 8, it may actually end in the middle of the night with a lower audience and thus a lower end price.
Those are just a few of the ways that eBay causes such price disparities.
I hope that others will add to this thread any other reasons that prices on sold items can vary, not talking about used items or items that have a subjective value based on condition, but on items that are exactly alike.

[Gunsil]

Much of this is patently untrue.
1-just because a high volume seller gets a better deal from ebay it has nothing to do with the realized auction price. People bid on the knife, not the seller and ebay is still the best source of what a given knife still brings. A volume seller might make a few more bucks but it has nothing to do with the auction final price.
2-Yes if you make a spelling error when listing it will be seen by less prospective buyers but that happens fairly seldom and is the sellers fault. I know people who specialize in looking up misspelled knives and yes, sometimes they get a good deal, but many times others have found item too and it brings market value. Also, if the knife was misspelled in an ad it won't show up on your search for values unless you misspell it also.
3- You can make an item end whenever you like. Doesn't really matter anyways, many buyers use sniper programs to bid and their bid goes in 2-3 seconds before the auction ends. I don't use a sniper program but do home snipe and have often set my alarm to get up in the wee hours to bid if I really want something.

Ebay listings are still the best quickest way to determine current value, much much better than looking in the price books many of which many are over twenty year old. Quality antique knives still often go for less on ebay than a similar knife at a good knife show. Facebook marketplace is becoming very popular among sellers but I don't participate in that site.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Good points Gunsil. I should have mentioned not just misspellings but sometimes little things in the title can throw off the search. Try searching for Robeson knife and Robeson by Queen. You won’t bring up the same results. You would think that if it has Robeson in the title it would include all the Robeson by Queen knives but it doesn’t. It’s hard to figure out what Ebay is doing sometimes when something so simple gets less views and shows different results. I find knives in some searches that are obviously in the wrong search but try and figure out why and you can’t. It all makes you wonder if those prices in sold items are even close to what you could get elsewhere.
Thanks for posting.

[rea1eye]

eBay is certainly not the perfect place to find a value but what is? It is
a starting point. Sometimes you get lucky and get something at a good
price. I did about a week ago. Sometimes you get caught up on a bidding
war for various reasons and the price you pay is too much. I did 4 days ago
but still lost- I was not meant to get it! Just don't take the site too
seriously.

Mark is right about the searches. (above post)

Bob

[Sharpnshinyknives]

That does help Kyteamster. It’s always good to learn how things work. I’ve been frustrated with eBay for years over various issues, but it usually involves listings and the arcane rules that seem to govern them. Trying to talk to an eBay representative is never good. All they can do is read you their policy from a screen and that’s not helpful, you never get to anyone that can actually address the question.

Thanks Bob.

[bestgear]

I’ve spent the last few months dropping in on Facebook Live knife shows and have found the prices that knives sell for there to be greater than recently sold eBay listings. It’s real-time so you don’t have much time to perform comparative pricing but the 25-30 sales that I’ve tracked, eBay has always been lower for a comparable knife.

These Facebook Live knife shows have anywhere from 20 to 100 buyers in the room at any point in time and they sell sell sell. I’ve used what I’ve observed from these shows to tweak some of the pricing on knives in my AAPK store.

[Mumbleypeg]

As one of those who often recommends eBay sold listings as a “ballpark” value source, I believe it to be a good source most of the time. Regardless its shortcomings it is relevant - it’s representative of what items are selling for RECENTLY. Drawbacks are sometimes on rare items there have been no sales - in which case there’s probably no good definitive answer as to the item’s worth. Typically however there are multiple sales of the item, or similar items, from which an estimated value can be determined. Yes, you can miss some listings. But if there are 5 recent sales and you miss the 6th because it wasn’t correctly listed by the seller, it’s likely the price fetched on the sale wasn’t representative either.

I’m amazed that people (usually first timers) post here asking “what’s it worth”, apparently willing to accept as gospel a reply from a total stranger, about whom they know nothing. Or to be quoted a “book” value from some 20, 30, or more year old publication. That, they’ll apparently readily accept, rather than doing some research for recent sales of the item. After all, it is easier! It seems a lot of folks either don’t think of eBay as a resource, or don’t know you can do an advanced search there, for sold listings only.

I “watch” a lot of knives auctioned on eBay, usually with no intent of buying the knife myself. I just want to see what price it brings. (Sometimes I have one like it in my collection). Occasionally I see one that prompts me to place a snipe bid, especially if it appears to be a bargain (I usually get out-bid though.) More often however the item brings about what it should, or more. Why more sellers don’t use the auctions is curious - probably they’re scared of not getting what they “think” it’s worth. In my experience it’s an unfounded concern, especially if they have good pictures and a good (not AI) description of the item. I’ve watched knives listed as BIN for weeks and get no bids, only to eventually be listed as a low-starting-bid auction, and in the end sell for a higher price than they originally listed it. Something about the fever of an auction!

Ken

[Dullest_knife]

As one of those who often recommends eBay sold listings as a “ballpark” value source, I believe it to be a good source most of the time. Regardless its shortcomings it is relevant - it’s representative of what items are selling for RECENTLY. Drawbacks are sometimes on rare items there have been no sales - in which case there’s probably no good definitive answer as to the item’s worth. Typically however there are multiple sales of the item, or similar items, from which an estimated value can be determined. Yes, you can miss some listings. But if there are 5 recent sales and you miss the 6th because it wasn’t correctly listed by the seller, it’s likely the price fetched on the sale wasn’t representative either.

I’m amazed that people (usually first timers) post here asking “what’s it worth”, apparently willing to accept as gospel a reply from a total stranger, about whom they know nothing. Or to be quoted a “book” value from some 20, 30, or more year old publication. That, they’ll apparently readily accept, rather than doing some research for recent sales of the item. After all, it is easier! It seems a lot of folks either don’t think of eBay as a resource, or don’t know you can do an advanced search there, for sold listings only.

I “watch” a lot of knives auctioned on eBay, usually with no intent of buying the knife myself. I just want to see what price it brings. (Sometimes I have one like it in my collection). Occasionally I see one that prompts me to place a snipe bid, especially if it appears to be a bargain (I usually get out-bid though.) More often however the item brings about what it should, or more. Why more sellers don’t use the auctions is curious - probably they’re scared of not getting what they “think” it’s worth. In my experience it’s an unfounded concern, especially if they have good pictures and a good (not AI) description of the item. I’ve watched knives listed as BIN for weeks and get no bids, only to eventually be listed as a low-starting-bid auction, and in the end sell for a higher price than they originally listed it. Something about the fever of an auction!

Ken

I really think your last point is so true, I know I’ve bought knives from eBay and think why is the world did I pay so much for this, folks really do get caught up in the bidding.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

As one of those who often recommends eBay sold listings as a “ballpark” value source, I believe it to be a good source most of the time. Regardless its shortcomings it is relevant - it’s representative of what items are selling for RECENTLY. Drawbacks are sometimes on rare items there have been no sales - in which case there’s probably no good definitive answer as to the item’s worth. Typically however there are multiple sales of the item, or similar items, from which an estimated value can be determined. Yes, you can miss some listings. But if there are 5 recent sales and you miss the 6th because it wasn’t correctly listed by the seller, it’s likely the price fetched on the sale wasn’t representative either.

I’m amazed that people (usually first timers) post here asking “what’s it worth”, apparently willing to accept as gospel a reply from a total stranger, about whom they know nothing. Or to be quoted a “book” value from some 20, 30, or more year old publication. That, they’ll apparently readily accept, rather than doing some research for recent sales of the item. After all, it is easier! It seems a lot of folks either don’t think of eBay as a resource, or don’t know you can do an advanced search there, for sold listings only.

I “watch” a lot of knives auctioned on eBay, usually with no intent of buying the knife myself. I just want to see what price it brings. (Sometimes I have one like it in my collection). Occasionally I see one that prompts me to place a snipe bid, especially if it appears to be a bargain (I usually get out-bid though.) More often however the item brings about what it should, or more. Why more sellers don’t use the auctions is curious - probably they’re scared of not getting what they “think” it’s worth. In my experience it’s an unfounded concern, especially if they have good pictures and a good (not AI) description of the item. I’ve watched knives listed as BIN for weeks and get no bids, only to eventually be listed as a low-starting-bid auction, and in the end sell for a higher price than they originally listed it. Something about the fever of an auction!

Ken

You make some good points Ken. I agree with most of what you say except that last paragraph on why folks don’t use auctions more? The way eBay treats the small seller is a good reason NOT to use auctions. I’ve been burnt on auctions many times. When I first started to sell online I only sold on eBay and there were times when I simply could not find my listing. So I would end it and re-list it with a tweak to the title and try to get my title exactly the same as say “Silverladdie”, and still couldn’t find it. I’d watch to see how many people were following my knives and try and figure out why I had no followers on my knives and no views and couldn’t make rhyme nor reason as to what was going on. I came to the conclusion that Bay does all the things I set out in the original post. After making many calls to eBay and getting no where except for them to quote me their “policy”, I figured out that eBay really does treat the small seller differently. I think you would be crazy to trust auctions on eBay to get the best price for your knives. That’s why I only do “buy it now” on eBay. Auctions are great when you can buy a knife well below what it is worth, but to a seller, it makes no sense to trust the opaque system that eBay runs.

[bestgear]

To illustrate my earlier post on prices realized in current Facebook Live knife shows vs eBay orders (sold knives), last week a Case Noble Trio carving set sold in a FBLive knife show for $250. I looked up eBay orders using “Case Noble Trio” as the search criteria and found 5 ranging from $100 to $130. These sets are hardly ever used so condition wasn’t into play. They all had their original cases and looked very similar to each other.

Were people caught up in the live auction, absolutely. They also had the opportunity to see the stag handles of all 3 pieces up close. Was the set “sold to the audience” by the host, absolutely salesmanship came into play. When a 60 second clock is ticking and you’re dealing with internet lag, it almost counts as an aerobic exercise.

I think eBay is still a good reference to consider but there are others including AAPK Stores and now FBLive auctions which also have raffles with a fixed-price for the knife (i.e., 10 slots at $80 each).

[peanut740]

There's anywhere from 8-10 Facebook knife auction every night,some even run during the day.90% are Case knives and a large percentage are totally dependent on the most recent "Case Price Guide".If they can buy a knife for 3/4 of guide price, they think they got a good deal.
I would venture a guess that more collectable knives trade hands on FB,than ebay.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

To illustrate my earlier post on prices realized in current Facebook Live knife shows vs eBay orders (sold knives), last week a Case Noble Trio carving set sold in a FBLive knife show for $250. I looked up eBay orders using “Case Noble Trio” as the search criteria and found 5 ranging from $100 to $130. These sets are hardly ever used so condition wasn’t into play. They all had their original cases and looked very similar to each other.

Were people caught up in the live auction, absolutely. They also had the opportunity to see the stag handles of all 3 pieces up close. Was the set “sold to the audience” by the host, absolutely salesmanship came into play. When a 60 second clock is ticking and you’re dealing with internet lag, it almost counts as an aerobic exercise.

I think eBay is still a good reference to consider but there are others including AAPK Stores and now FBLive auctions which also have raffles with a fixed-price for the knife (i.e., 10 slots at $80 each).

Thanks for posting that Tom. I’ve been thinking hard about opening a Facebook account and trying this. This really helps. Do you know if they have a history of what is sold to look up past sales?

[bestgear]

Do you know if they have a history of what is sold to look up past sales?

I'm not trying to hijack your eBay thread Mark but instead offer an alternative venue that might be a good place for price discovery. These are solely the observations of a newbie to the FBLive scene:

• You can normally find and replay the Facebook Live knife auctions (FBLA) but since it's video there's no way to lookup history by knife

• FBLA's last anywhere from 2-6 hours and starts anywhere from 5 pm to 8 pm almost any day of the week

• FBLA is in a room with 15-100 interested knife buyers that ebbs and flows like a real auction house where multiple auctions are taking place at the same time

• NIB Case knives are the majority of the inventory presented for sale

• The 2 major sales types are no starting point or reserve and a starting point with no reserve

• Raffles (called Waffles to fly under the FB police radar) run when all tickets are sold at a price equal to the fixed price of the knife

• Money is never talked about and currency symbols ($) are never used

• Sales of 30-100 knives/auction are common roughly grossing between $2K and $8K

• It's somewhat of the usual suspects network in that the same people are in the same auctions every week

• Real names, shipping information, and payment instructions are made via Facebook Messenger

• Invoices are sent a day or so after the auction ends and shipping happens once payment is cleared

• Attendance to an FBLA is typically by a reference or shared contact

I'm sure I'll think of more but that's off the top of my head, Mark. These are well-prepared shows that move at the pace of the host. Good lighting and a high-speed internet connection are key. You need to be a bit of a showman to attract and keep 100 people in an FBLA so if that's not you then you might want to adjust your expectations for outcomes. Lastly, most of the FBLA hosts that I've gotten to know are willing to sell your knives on consignment with percentages that are commensurate with most auction houses.

Hope this helps and let us know if you start a FBLA!

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Do you know if they have a history of what is sold to look up past sales?

I'm not trying to hijack your eBay thread Mark but instead offer an alternative venue that might be a good place for price discovery. These are solely the observations of a newbie to the FBLive scene:

• You can normally find and replay the Facebook Live knife auctions (FBLA) but since it's video there's no way to lookup history by knife

• FBLA's last anywhere from 2-6 hours and starts anywhere from 5 pm to 8 pm almost any day of the week

• FBLA is in a room with 15-100 interested knife buyers that ebbs and flows like a real auction house where multiple auctions are taking place at the same time

• NIB Case knives are the majority of the inventory presented for sale

• The 2 major sales types are no starting point or reserve and a starting point with no reserve

• Raffles (called Waffles to fly under the FB police radar) run when all tickets are sold at a price equal to the fixed price of the knife

• Money is never talked about and currency symbols ($) are never used

• Sales of 30-100 knives/auction are common roughly grossing between $2K and $8K

• It's somewhat of the usual suspects network in that the same people are in the same auctions every week

• Real names, shipping information, and payment instructions are made via Facebook Messenger

• Invoices are sent a day or so after the auction ends and shipping happens once payment is cleared

• Attendance to an FBLA is typically by a reference or shared contact

I'm sure I'll think of more but that's off the top of my head, Mark. These are well-prepared shows that move at the pace of the host. Good lighting and a high-speed internet connection are key. You need to be a bit of a showman to attract and keep 100 people in an FBLA so if that's not you then you might want to adjust your expectations for outcomes. Lastly, most of the FBLA hosts that I've gotten to know are willing to sell your knives on consignment with percentages that are commensurate with most auction houses.

Hope this helps and let us know if you start a FBLA!

Thanks Tom, that is quite helpful. I don’t mind talking about other alternatives to eBay in this thread. I think folks need to know that eBay isn’t the only game in town. Ebay should wake up and smell the coffee. Just wish there was a place that compiled recent sales on knives from all venues, you would have thought that someone would have thought about doing that and selling access to it.
Interesting that folks mostly sell Case knives on there, I can’t find a decent way to buy modern Case knives and make a profit from them so I moved on from them years ago.
I did meet a guy a couple of years ago that bought and sold GEC knives on Facebook and did VERY well selling there. Don’t know if he is still selling there or not. I’m going to check into it further and will let folks know if I take the jump.

[peanut740]

Do you know if they have a history of what is sold to look up past sales?

I'm not trying to hijack your eBay thread Mark but instead offer an alternative venue that might be a good place for price discovery. These are solely the observations of a newbie to the FBLive scene:

• You can normally find and replay the Facebook Live knife auctions (FBLA) but since it's video there's no way to lookup history by knife

• FBLA's last anywhere from 2-6 hours and starts anywhere from 5 pm to 8 pm almost any day of the week

• FBLA is in a room with 15-100 interested knife buyers that ebbs and flows like a real auction house where multiple auctions are taking place at the same time

• NIB Case knives are the majority of the inventory presented for sale

• The 2 major sales types are no starting point or reserve and a starting point with no reserve

• Raffles (called Waffles to fly under the FB police radar) run when all tickets are sold at a price equal to the fixed price of the knife

• Money is never talked about and currency symbols ($) are never used

• Sales of 30-100 knives/auction are common roughly grossing between $2K and $8K

• It's somewhat of the usual suspects network in that the same people are in the same auctions every week

• Real names, shipping information, and payment instructions are made via Facebook Messenger

• Invoices are sent a day or so after the auction ends and shipping happens once payment is cleared

• Attendance to an FBLA is typically by a reference or shared contact

I'm sure I'll think of more but that's off the top of my head, Mark. These are well-prepared shows that move at the pace of the host. Good lighting and a high-speed internet connection are key. You need to be a bit of a showman to attract and keep 100 people in an FBLA so if that's not you then you might want to adjust your expectations for outcomes. Lastly, most of the FBLA hosts that I've gotten to know are willing to sell your knives on consignment with percentages that are commensurate with most auction houses.

Hope this helps and let us know if you start a FBLA!

Thanks Tom, that is quite helpful. I don’t mind talking about other alternatives to eBay in this thread. I think folks need to know that eBay isn’t the only game in town. Ebay should wake up and smell the coffee. Just wish there was a place that compiled recent sales on knives from all venues, you would have thought that someone would have thought about doing that and selling access to it.
Interesting that folks mostly sell Case knives on there, I can’t find a decent way to buy modern Case knives and make a profit from them so I moved on from them years ago.
I did meet a guy a couple of years ago that bought and sold GEC knives on Facebook and did VERY well selling there. Don’t know if he is still selling there or not. I’m going to check into it further and will let folks know if I take the jump.

Mark,the guys doing the big business are selling mostly XX,USAs and dotted Case knives with a few tested sprinkled in.An 88 Congress passed hands a few weeks ago on one of the more popular auctions for 7k.
But there are many doing strictly knives made in the last 10 years or so.

[bestgear]

the guys doing the big business are selling mostly XX,USAs and dotted Case knives with a few tested sprinkled in.

thanks for clarifying that Roger - I’m not fluent in Case and your explanation helps a lot!

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Thanks Roger that’s helpful.

[peanut740]

There's also 100's of knife groups.About anything knife related There's a group for it.Many of them allow sales.

[Mumbleypeg]

Going back to the original premise of the OP, and recommending eBay as a resource for values. What to tell those who post the question “what’s my knife worth?” Typically it’s not a longtime member or collector asking the question - it’s the first-time “drive by” poster who joined just to ask “what’s grandpa’s knife worth so I can sell it”.

I don’t think we can tell them to join a Facebook auction group. For those of you with stores or other knife selling/dealing endeavors maybe you want more in depth info and are willing to spend hours on Facebook. For others, I don’t know of a better or easier current source for most knives’ value than ebay sold listings.

Ken

[1967redrider]

I always steer people with that question to eBay because, 1) it's the biggest marketplace for selling knives, 2) for their completed listings/sold search feature.

[just bob]

I'm an eBay advocate. As soon as I bring home new items I go in and try to establish parameters for their value. If you can throw out the high and the low and find middle ground, then that is a good starting point if you are selling items with a BIN listing. You can adjust if your item doesn't get any action. Go to the seller's hub and note how many people are viewing your auctions and how many people are adding your items to their watch list. If either of those categories are low, then consider a price reduction and see if that helps. Another good free resource is here on AAPK search for your item on here and also the completed listings. It costs nothing. Oftentimes I have gained good results here.
It's so common anymore and so annoying, but even if you go to a yard sale and try to buy an item people want to yank out their phone and show you what it sells for on eBay. Of course, they don't stop to realize that is the BIN price of overzealous picker who is out of touch with reality. They also have no idea that if an item sells for $100 then the seller is likely only to get about $80 and for that they have taken pictures, created the post, went to the post office, left feedback, deal with upset bidders, etc. You work for you eBay profits (if any) it isn't a free lunch. Buying items that would sell for less than $100 at half of their anticipated eBay value isn't a bad guideline. It's just hard to find the items priced like that. The profit margin is thin.

[bestgear]

I'm an eBay advocate

I am too - I have about 60 active listings on both eBay and AAPK. The 13.25% sales fee is no joke but it’s a powerful sales platform if you use it the way you do and probably worth the price.

The profit margin is thin

thats the truth especially when 1099’s get issued and you have to have solid records to determine your actual profit.

[Reverand]

Like any tool, eBay can be useful, but it cannot do everything.
I like the points raised by everyone, and the discussions on those points give a better understanding.
A great thread!