Why Rough Ryder knives are the perfect collectible knife.

[Rough Ryder]

I have been collecting knives (among other things) off and on for almost 40 years now. I have seen trends come and go and have been surprised by the values of certain knives, good and bad over the years. Some knives that should be worth a small fortune are almost impossible to sell and some relatively cheap and common knives fetch more used than new at times.

I have owned the full range of knives from antique to modern big name expensive custom knives and everything in between. Currently I’m obsessed with Rough Ryder (Marbles and Queen as well) because I’ve been bit by the traditional knife bug. when I went to go buy some of the knives of my youth, I was shocked by the prices. I discovered Rough Ryder and started buying them. I quickly became interested in collecting certain patterns or sets because they were affordable and of good quality.

Rough Ryder knives originally sold for $10-20 dollars in most cases and still do for the current production pieces. There are some more expensive ones like the Rough Ryder Reserves but most of the normal knives still sell for less than $20 for the most part.

I’ll list my reasons why I think Rough Ryders will be the next big collectible knife brand.

1. Price. They were inexpensive which enabled many people to be exposed to them easily. I don’t know how many RRs have been sold over the last 30 years but I would bet money they sold more RR knives than Case has sold in the same time period. That’s due to price, people won’t think twice about buying a $12 pocket knife but an $80 Case knife is a little more serious investment.

2. Value. Most people agree that you get a pretty decent knife for the money and most people have been pleased with the value inherent in these knives.

3. Materials. RR offers a wide range of materials in their knives from real bone to mother of Pearl to micarta to stag to burl wood to rams horn etc.

4. Variety. They have produced thousands of different varieties of knives which makes it a rich collecting landscape. You can focus on pattern collection like collecting doctors knives or you can collect every red jigged bone knife they made or whatever you want. This makes it fun and exciting since you can follow your heart on what you like and go after it.

Rarity. Some may say that there are no truly rare RR knives and that may be true in a sense but good luck trying to find a discontinued RR even a few months after the big retailers are sold out. About your only option is eBay and there isn’t much on there most of the time.

Fun.
Rough Ryder doesn’t seem to take itself too seriously and they seem to have fun with their designs. You get the sense that the people at RR are not just trying to make knives that they think people will buy but also make knives that they want to carry. There seems to be more life and joy at Rough Ryder than most other knife makers who seem to be afraid to step away from what they have been doing that has made them money. Rough Ryder seems a bit more willing to break new ground try some silly things or just unusual ideas.

I am not affiliated with SMKW or any company in anyway. I’m just a guy who thinks Rough Ryders are good knives for the money and enjoy collecting them. I think people will enjoy them too if they are looking for something fun to collect. I’m not saying they are a good investment but that is not the only reason to collect. I do believe if you buy RRs for a good price, you would not lose much money if you decided to sell at some point. For example, if you bought 60 RRs all new for what SMKW charges, you would be into them for $800 give or take a couple hundred either way depending on what you bought. In 10-15 years, at least a few of those models will become discontinued and command higher than original price. The ones that don’t go up in value, will still be worth about 80% what you paid even in used condition. So, most likely you will be able to at least break even if not make a few bucks.

[C-WADE7]

Well written and explained. I do really like some of the unique adaptations of no longer in production patterns that they have reintroduced. I use a RR carbon series whittler that I modified pretty often for whittling.

[bestgear]

I’ll list my reasons why I think Rough Ryders will be the next big collectible knife brand

thoughtfully put together, thanks for sharing! Another “pro” is that they are warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for the life of the owner. On the “con” side, there seems to be a rising tide of knife buyers (especially in the U.S.) that are abhorrent to purchasing knives made in China which could significantly affect collector values.

[eveled]

I was amazed at the number of shields they have used.

https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kn ... hp?t=69325

[Rough Ryder]

I’ll list my reasons why I think Rough Ryders will be the next big collectible knife brand

thoughtfully put together, thanks for sharing! Another “pro” is that they are warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for the life of the owner. On the “con” side, there seems to be a rising tide of knife buyers (especially in the U.S.) that are abhorrent to purchasing knives made in China which could significantly affect collector values.

Great point! While I don’t expect perfection from a $15 knife, I have used the warranty 2-3 times after getting a new knife that was unacceptable or unusable. The quickly and politely made the situation right and I was very pleased with how they truly do stand behind their products and didn’t play games that
Would discourage you from completing the return process. It was quick easy and fair. Their warranty is one of the best in the business. Compare that to Spyderco where I have been argued with and even insulted when trying to get a knife repaired or replaced with their BS warranty on their far more expensive knives. That leaves a bad taste in your mouth after you just laid out $150 for a plastic handled lockback. lol.

[Rough Ryder]

I’ll list my reasons why I think Rough Ryders will be the next big collectible knife brand

thoughtfully put together, thanks for sharing! Another “pro” is that they are warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for the life of the owner. On the “con” side, there seems to be a rising tide of knife buyers (especially in the U.S.) that are abhorrent to purchasing knives made in China which could significantly affect collector values.

The made in China aspect is a huge con for several reasons. It is what it is. These knives will probably never be worth what American made knives are worth and they probably shouldn’t be. Collectors can get carried away though and pay ridiculous prices if they “need” a certain one. It’s no more or less ridiculous than baseball cards or stamps or whatever people decide to collect.

I wish they weren’t made in China but that’s also the reason they are so inexpensive. I like Case Knives but their prices keep me from buying them in the same numbers as the Rough Ryders. For every new Case knife I buy, I probably buy 10-20 Rough Ryders, Marbles or Queen knives.

[rea1eye]

I have looked at a few used RR knives at knife shows and stores which were of
low quality. Maybe those were made in China?? How can you tell which ones
were made in the USA?

Bob

[bestgear]

The made in China aspect is a huge con for several reasons

my biggest challenge is the claim to be fabricated with a certain steel (i.e., D2) with a certain Rockwell hardness but in fact they perform nothing like their U.S. competition. My second biggest challenge is that the knife cannot be traced to a manufacturer and only a country that is slightly larger than the U.S. Just like here, China has good and bad manufacturing facilities but without knowing what factory makes a knife, all we have is the country of origin.

[1967redrider]

I have a trio of Rough Rider Barlows from about 15 years ago, plus a Candy Cane Hawkbill a buddy gave me for Christmas and one Herb gave me. They are all quality knives and will cut.

[Modern Slip Joints]

I have looked at a few used RR knives at knife shows and stores which were of
low quality. Maybe those were made in China?? How can you tell which ones
were made in the USA?

Bob

I'm pretty sure all RR tradtional folders have only been made in China. Certainly none were made in the USA. Most RR fixed blade knives are made in Pakistan. I do not know how long SMKW has been contracting RR fixed blade knives in Pakistan but it's been years.

While the percentage of RR tradtional folders I returned is higher than Case, SMKW is quick replacing them or refunding their price. Along with the purchase price SMKW reimburses my cost shipping back defective RRs. Usually for a single under $20 defective RR SMKW tells me to keep it and mails a replacement. They say if I'm not happy after recieving the replacement then return both for a refund including my cost shipping them back. Since I let my wants accumulate until they meet SMKW minimum for free shipping I do not know if they refund that shipping.

Handling most of my RR slip joints I am amazed at how great their assembly, hafting and fitting is for such a tiny price. The few I've used enough to comment on their edge retention all have the standard 440A alloy. While not out standing they hold an edge longer than Victoronix knives and longer than most of my kitchen knives. A fair test comparing them to Case's standard stainless would be interesting. For a few dollars more some RR series have 440B or VG10 stainless that should hold an edge longer. Their plastic tortoise shell series has 440B for the price of 440A. I know nothong about the non-stainless alloys RR uses.

I do not consider resale price when buying RRs. They are to enjoy now.

[Rough Ryder]

I have looked at a few used RR knives at knife shows and stores which were of
low quality. Maybe those were made in China?? How can you tell which ones
were made in the USA?

Bob

Pretty much all the folders are made in China. I’m not aware of any Rough Ryders made in the USA. The fixed blades are made either in Pakistan or China. I have a couple of the china Fixed blades and they are pretty nice. I will not knowingly buy any knife made in Pakistan because every knife I’ve ever bought in my entire life that was made in Pakistan was trash. If you are going to buy a fixed blade from RR, get one made in China as the general consensus is they are better quality.

[Rough Ryder]

The made in China aspect is a huge con for several reasons

my biggest challenge is the claim to be fabricated with a certain steel (i.e., D2) with a certain Rockwell hardness but in fact they perform nothing like their U.S. competition. My second biggest challenge is that the knife cannot be traced to a manufacturer and only a country that is slightly larger than the U.S. Just like here, China has good and bad manufacturing facilities but without knowing what factory makes a knife, all we have is the country of origin.

From the testing I’ve seen and done, Rough Ryders seem roughly equivalent to most knives of the same steel. 440a is really bottom of the barrel when it comes to knife steel and it preforms like most 440a. 440a has nothing going for it besides being cheap. It will stain, doesn’t hold an edge well, is somewhat brittle and in general is the absolute minimum when it comes to a knife steel

You have to understand what you are getting and not getting when you buy a $12 knife. If you want a super steel, spend $400 and buy a Magnacut knife. It’s unrealistic to expect a knife that sells for the price of a cheeseburger to have S30v or VG10 steel.


These are inexpensive knives with pros and cons and limitations due to their low price. They are not knives for steel nerds who want a super steel. They will cut and hold an edge a reasonable amount of time but they are not going to impress anyone with their edge holding abilities. The good news is, they are very easy to sharpen and can be kept sharp with anything at hand from the bottom of a coffee cup to a piece of cardboard. I strop mine on cardboard and it brings the edge back if it’s not too dull.

[Rough Ryder]

I do have some of the Rough Ryder carbon steel knives. They call their steel “T-10”. I hear it’s basically equivalent to 1055 steel. Not sure about that because I don’t have any pocket knives with 1055 steel. I have a few large fixed blades with 1055 but no pocket knives that I’m aware of.

The Rough Ryder T-10 steel definitely holds an edge longer than 440a when cutting cardboard boxes. The 440a dulls noticeably after cutting about 6 feet of cardboard. It will still cut but starts to tear and pull through it rather than cleanly cut. The T-10 will do about twice as good. It’s still not great but much better than the lowly 440a.

I have used several of my Rough Ryders hard and I was actually surprised they held up as well as they did. I hard to cut through some drywall and 1x6” trim to mount a fixture and all I had with me was my Capital Intern. I used the small wharncliff blade and eventually made my cuts. I was really forcing that little blade hard and kind of expected it to snap but it was fine. It’s still sharp and I haven’t needed to touch it up yet.

Rough Ryders are legit knives. They are not junk. You can use them like any other pocket knife. If you ever did break one, they are warrantied for life which is crazy.

[Modern Slip Joints]

1055 is about right for an ax, not a knife. 1095 has long been the standard knife non-stainless steel. All the US military knife specifications I'm aware of called for 1095. Maybe more recently Uncle Sam specified something else? The last two digits are one hundredth of a percent carbon. 1055 is 0.55% carbon, 1095 is 0.95% carbon. I doubt RR is using 1055. When reading about RR you need to consider whether the writer has a financial interest in selling high priced knives.

The famous Blackie Collins designed knives S&W made in the 1970s that sell for $100 to $250 are forged 440A. For stainless Randal uses 440B because 440C does not work with forging.

[Rough Ryder]

Oh yes, the S&W Blackie Collin’s knives! This is mine. My understanding is they were made using “440 series” steel. That could mean 440a, 440b or 440c. I think it was Blackie Collin’s own concoction but I’m not sure. My blade seems very hard and doesn’t sharpen as easily as other 440 blades I have.
Mine was made in 1974. I recently bought it to replace the one my dad carried in his 1965 mustang throughout the 1980s and 1990s. He gave it to me but I lost it somehow in a move and it broke my heart. The good old days.

[Modern Slip Joints]

While the Bowie was the most popular and remains the one the largest number of people want, my favorites are the Skinner and Outdoorsman followed by the Fisherman (or what ever its original name was). Photographs of original 1970s S&W papers posted on Smith-Wessonforum.com write 440A and have pictures of them being forged. I do not remember for sure where I read that the only one of the fixed blades that was not forged was the Skinner but it was probably there. The Skinner is ground out of the same blade stock the longer blades were forged from so its tang is thick and strong. I wonder if the Fillet's thin blade really was forged or if those collectors did not have enough interest in fishing to include it in their description of which were or were not forged.

Forging makes the same size parts stronger than all forms of casting or metal injection molding the same steel alloy. Forged axe blades can be thinner than cast axe blades, S&W forged revolver frames can be thinner than Ruger cast revolver frames, etc. The heat treatment manufacturers chose makes a big differece in hardness. Logically, softer parts would make it easier and less expensive for Victoronix and RR to stamp parts out and finish polish them.

Come to think of it, 440C was not an option for these knives because 440C can not be forged.

[Rough Ryder]

While the Bowie was the most popular and remains the one the largest number of people want, my favorites are the Skinner and Outdoorsman followed by the Fisherman (or what ever its original name was). Photographs of original 1970s S&W papers posted on Smith-Wessonforum.com write 440A and have pictures of them being forged. I do not remember for sure where I read that the only one of the fixed blades that was not forged was the Skinner but it was probably there. The Skinner is ground out of the same blade stock the longer blades were forged from so its tang is thick and strong. I wonder if the Fillet's thin blade really was forged or if those collectors did not have enough interest in fishing to include it in their description of which were or were not forged.

Forging makes the same size parts stronger than all forms of casting or metal injection molding the same steel alloy. Forged axe blades can be thinner than cast axe blades, S&W forged revolver frames can be thinner than Ruger cast revolver frames, etc. The heat treatment manufacturers chose makes a big differece in hardness. Logically, softer parts would make it easier and less expensive for Victoronix and RR to stamp parts out and finish polish them.

Come to think of it, 440C was not an option for these knives because 440C can not be forged.

Great info! There isn’t much known about these older S&W Blackie Collins knives. You don’t see them around much anymore. My understanding is they were pretty expensive at the time and S&W had a hard time making money on them because of all the steps and time it took to make them. I think it’s extra special that S&W actually made them in house and didn’t just contract them out to be made like most gun makers would have.

Also, I totally agree on your point of forged vs cast. I used to collect older S&W revolvers and they were all forged. You used to be able to buy pre 1960s S&Ws for $200-400 all day long. Those days are long gone. Just like the days of being able to snap up vintage Queens, Schrades, Western and Others for good prices before they got popular and the prices went up.

[unkindnesssari]

Oh yes, the S&W Blackie Collin’s knives! This is mine. My understanding is they were made using “440 series” steel. That could mean 440a, 440b or 440c. I think it was Blackie Collin’s own concoction but I’m not sure. My blade seems very hard and doesn’t sharpen as easily as other 440 blades I have.
Mine was made in 1974. I have knives, too, but they are not even close. Mine are cheap, I don't have the money yet to buy something vintage or collectible. But I'm not that new in this business, I think the time will come, and I'll save up money for something valuable. Maybe this will somehow help me realize my dream. In any case, you have a cool knife! I recently bought it to replace the one my dad carried in his 1965 mustang throughout the 1980s and 1990s. He gave it to me but I lost it somehow in a move and it broke my heart. The good old days.

How much did the knife cost you?

[Legend]

Hello Rough Ryder from the UK ,
What a well written personal account of RR knives and one which I totally agree with . I have a small collection of around 15 RRs with the odd Queens and Marbles thrown in . Like you I have been around knives for a long time , probably bought my first small pen knife when was about eight years old , so almost 60 years ago . I do understand peoples partisan affiliation when collecting knives and buying Chinese made products just doesnt sit well with everybody but it also comes down to what each individual can afford and as people say RRs are as cheap as you will get these sort of knives for . More importantly the company has been around for 30 years + so they must be doing something right and I have to say for all we in the UK pay more for our RRs they are still a reasonable price for such well built models and every one of mine is damm near perfect and as Ive said Ive been around knives for almost 60 years so I like to think I know what Im talking about ! You also mentioned that they are fun to collect an once again I agree with you , I am a total traditionalist and really like the styles / models that RR turn out which also reminds me of my youth . These days I am a collector only due to health problems and I get great satisfaction from my Rough Ryders .

[Dinadan]

This is an interesting thread. I think of Rough Ryders as being kind of equivalent to old shell handled knives. Shell handled knives were sold cheap and in great quantities. So far as I know, not too many folks collect them. But I am sometimes surprised at the quality of the few that I own. They were made cheap but made to use.

If a person of modest means wants to get into collecting knives, I do think that Rough Ryders are a good choice. While I like to see the USA stamp on a knife, collecting new USA made knives is pretty expensive. And in all honesty, I have a couple of USA made knives that I bought new in the past few years that are not especially good knives. And as others have pointed out in other threads, buying a knife that was made by a company that has gone out of business does not help American workers.

Anyway, a hobby is supposed to be a way of having fun. The great number of patterns and of handle materials do make RR fun to collect. If it turns out that a person's collection if worth little or nothing, he can sleep free of worry that his heirs will sell it cheap at a yard sale.

[Stakeknife]

This is an interesting thread. I think of Rough Ryders as being kind of equivalent to old shell handled knives. Shell handled knives were sold cheap and in great quantities. So far as I know, not too many folks collect them. But I am sometimes surprised at the quality of the few that I own. They were made cheap but made to use.

If a person of modest means wants to get into collecting knives, I do think that Rough Ryders are a good choice. While I like to see the USA stamp on a knife, collecting new USA made knives is pretty expensive. And in all honesty, I have a couple of USA made knives that I bought new in the past few years that are not especially good knives. And as others have pointed out in other threads, buying a knife that was made by a company that has gone out of business does not help American workers.

Anyway, a hobby is supposed to be a way of having fun. The great number of patterns and of handle materials do make RR fun to collect. If it turns out that a person's collection if worth little or nothing, he can sleep free of worry that his heirs will sell it cheap at a yard sale.

Agreed, and some of us don’t actually use the knives we collect, we just look at them. RR makes some nice looking stuff for a very reasonable price.