Sharpening Stones thread

[enuf]

Boy, do I have a little reading through this one - looks interesting.

[C-WADE7]

Boy, do I have a little reading through this one - looks interesting.

It’s a lot of good information! Just remember if you don’t have technique, no stone no matter how expensive will do good.

[enuf]

Using Balistol for lube, it'll remove metal pretty fast for a hard stone.

May I suggest using just a spritz of water to float metal particles that were removed from the blade edge during sharpening. If at a bench you will have to wipe the stone from time to time with a wet paper towel and spritz again. Sometimes I use mine at the kitchen sink, stone on folded paper towel to protect surface and have running water readily available. I believe "lube" slows down cutting action of stone. As does residual metal particles as a result of sharpening. Clean stone -- clean cut.

So, I have the very common Norton combination stone Crystolon and India model. It says always lubricate your stone with Norton Sharpening Stone Oil. Would this stone work with water or is it a for sure oil use stone? Is there a time or stone that you wouldn't want to use either water or oil?

[C-WADE7]

So, I have the very common Norton combination stone Crystolon and India model. It says always lubricate your stone with Norton Sharpening Stone Oil. Would this stone work with water or is it a for sure oil use stone? Is there a time or stone that you wouldn't want to use either water or oil?

I use light mineral oil or 3 in 1 on my crystolon stones. I have used water and it’s better than nothing but the stone is made oil impregnated and they recommend oil. I feel for my Norton stones the oil really helps them “cut” better and speeds the process up.

[FRJ]

So, I have the very common Norton combination stone Crystolon and India model. It says always lubricate your stone with Norton Sharpening Stone Oil. Would this stone work with water or is it a for sure oil use stone? Is there a time or stone that you wouldn't want to use either water or oil?

The two stones you mentioned are very good stones. You don't mention the condition or the length but generally, as I have said before,
if you had just a six or eight inch combination stone you really wouldn't need anything else for sharpening pocket cutlery. But that's no fun.
As to oil, well, I don't know when oil came in to prominent use. Way back sometime I suppose. Home workshops.
I don't believe the cutlery industry used oil to grind their blades or their hatchets or machetes. The production of refined manmade
sharpening stones and mined and refined earthstones was a boon to sharpeners as they had in hand a tool that was portable and efficient.
And using oil on them was a natural thing to do to keep the stone from loading up from steel removed. That concept hasn't changed in years.
It's still widely practiced now. And stone manufacturers were not going to let that go as long as they could sell you oil with their name on it and tell you that it was best to use their oil with their stone. Balderdash!
A properly made stone doesn't need a brand name. It needs to be a correct, or nearly correct, size and grit for your needs and as stated in a post above you must provide a fairly consistent technique.
I don't understand the concept of using a lubricant to remove metal on a blade edge. I don't like slurry; it inhibits the cutting process in my opinion. Again, clean stone ..... clean cut.
I have used water on the "oil stones" that I keep available and I think you could too. They're pretty indestructible.
I always use water on any of the many kinds of stones that I use, including diamond stones.
Thanks for the post and the questions.

[enuf]

Thanks Joe, this is an 8x2x1 - almost like new. It may have been my dad's; he had some stones; but I really think I picked this one up at a G-Sale about 25 years ago for a buck or two. It had a little build up in it, I think used just a couple of times - I took mineral oil and a small nylon brush (like for gun cleaning) and scrubbed it, it didn't take much. I just sharpened five kitchen knives, Cutco's (wife likes Cutco). We have had these Cutco's for several years, the old friends kid going to college sales deal, but we have had good success with them. The knives would barely tear paper, now they cut paper. I ain't saying I did a fantastic job, but my first go around, I am pretty happy with the outcome.

[Mumbleypeg]

To answer your other question, there are sharpening systems (“stones”) that do not use any type of liquid. But eventually they will need to be cleaned of steel particles removed from the blade during the sharpening action. Liquid is not required on Diamond plates used for sharpening. I also have a sharpening station labeled “Queen” that specifies on the label not to use any liquid on it.

I long ago learned free-hand sharpening from my grandfather. He kept his pocket knives sharp, using conventional “carborundum” type and Arkansas stones. With oil, water, and “spit”, whatever was available at the time.

My advice is to learn a good technique, and don’t over complicate or over think things.

Ken

[enuf]

Thanks Ken - you always have good advise.

[pitonyak]

So, I have the very common Norton combination stone Crystolon and India model. It says always lubricate your stone with Norton Sharpening Stone Oil. Would this stone work with water or is it a for sure oil use stone? Is there a time or stone that you wouldn't want to use either water or oil?

The Norton oil is a Mineral oil. Not all mineral oils is the same and the rumor that I have seen (but never heard anyone claim was true) was that if the oil is not properly refined that it may gum-up your stone.

Some mineral oil that you can buy may have perfumes in the oil, avoid those; if it does not say that it is meant for a babies bottom it probably does not have it, but check for it. If it says that you can drink it or it if food safe, that is probably fine with no perfume or similar.

I have used this UltraPro Food Grade Mineral Oil for years with no issues on all sorts of oil stones including the India and Crystolon stones.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VNI1JI0

A gallon is (as of Jan 10, 2024) about $30, which is much cheaper than the Norton Mineral oil. Not sure you really want a gallon though. In the long run this saves me money.

I always use food safe oil so that I can use it for "food safe things" when I need it.

[pitonyak]

... there are sharpening systems (“stones”) that do not use any type of liquid. But eventually they will need to be cleaned of steel particles removed from the blade during the sharpening action.

My favorite bench stones for this are the Norton Ascent Ceramic stones primarily because they are guaranteed flat.

My second favorite are the Spyderco Ceramic Bench stones. There was a time when people were complaining that they had to flatten them because they were not flat (more a problem with woodworking tools such as plane blades and chisels). These are brutal to flatten. All of my SpyderCo Bench stones came flat. Also, these are usually less expensive than the Norton Ascent Stones.

You can use these stones dry, but for the bench stones I often spritz them with water depending on what I am doing. You can see metal left behind when used dry and when it builds up I break out the barkeepers friend, scour it clean, rinse it off and it is ready to go. Very easy to do.

My favorite hand held sharpening system is probably the SpyderCo Sharpmaker, which uses the same ceramic material for the rods.

I also have some KME stones, which are listed as Ceramic Aluminum Oxide and they are crazy cheap. The AO62-C Super Tuff is Coarse and AO62-F Super Tuff is Medium / Fine (same grit both sides). These are a much coarser grit than the others. I have not used these much because I have not owned them long. Two different places that sell these stones:

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KMEAO6 ... ooden-case
https://www.kmesharp.com/kmealcestme.html

I do have another ceramic stone that I purchased years ago and I have no idea who makes it. I purchased mine at Woodcraft and it is still available at Lee Valley 60M2101 (800 grit) and 600M2102 (8000 grit). I purchased the 8000 grit version to sharpen chip carving knives and it was my first ceramic stone. Works great as do the others.

Liquid is not required on Diamond plates used for sharpening. I also have a sharpening station labeled “Queen” that specifies on the label not to use any liquid on it.

Most Diamond plates claim that no liquid is required. At least one says you should use a liquid, I think it is Trend, which sells a lapping fluid for about $26 a cup. Note that this has has rust Inhibitors.

https://www.amazon.com/Trend-DWS-LF-100 ... B004NPIMU8

If you use water, you may end up with rust on your plates even if it is only from the metal particles rusting. I usually use Smiths Honing Solution, which is about $15 a cup (8 0z), which I know has rust Inhibitors

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-HON1-4OZ- ... B0013AXUOY

And no, I do not always lubricate diamond plates, but, with a bench stone I often do because i prefer the feel and then the "dust" is also washed away.

My advice is to learn a good technique, and don’t over complicate or over think things.

As always, great advice. I can free hand sharpen, but I never feel proficient with it. I use Wedgek angle guides that can sit on the stone or near the stone, but those types of guides can be (usually are) thrown off because almost ALL blades are tapered from the back of the blade towards the cutting edge to where the cutting bevel begins. The Wedgek site has a calculator to help you choose the correct angle guide to use for these situations. I checked their measurements (just takes a bit of math). I also usually mark the cutting bevel with marker to see where metal is removed while sharpening.

[enuf]

So, I have the very common Norton combination stone Crystolon and India model. It says always lubricate your stone with Norton Sharpening Stone Oil. Would this stone work with water or is it a for sure oil use stone? Is there a time or stone that you wouldn't want to use either water or oil?

The Norton oil is a Mineral oil. Not all mineral oils is the same and the rumor that I have seen (but never heard anyone claim was true) was that if the oil is not properly refined that it may gum-up your stone.

Some mineral oil that you can buy may have perfumes in the oil, avoid those; if it does not say that it is meant for a babies bottom it probably does not have it, but check for it. If it says that you can drink it or it if food safe, that is probably fine with no perfume or similar.

I have used this UltraPro Food Grade Mineral Oil for years with no issues on all sorts of oil stones including the India and Crystolon stones.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VNI1JI0

A gallon is (as of Jan 10, 2024) about $30, which is much cheaper than the Norton Mineral oil. Not sure you really want a gallon though. In the long run this saves me money.

I always use food safe oil so that I can use it for "food safe things" when I need it.

I presume what I got is food grade - it says it is "good for constipation."

[Lama]

I posted these in another thread, but thought I’d share here.

This is the result of bids on two lots at auction last December. The shipping was more than the purchase price and some arrived chipped, but the way my wife rolled her eyes when she saw the pile was priceless. The photo was taken after most were degreased. Many were nearly black with old oil, glazed and clogged. The pile includes mostly Washita and India stones. There's a couple of translucent Arkansas, Carborundum, A lonely diamond hone, an Escher razor hone from Germany, and a purple one I still haven't identified. Almost all were working stones, so most of their labels are long gone or barely readable. Many had wooden boxes that arrive beyond repair. The ones set in wood are mostly shop made from a single board that was first augured with a bit and brace, then chiseled out. One has the owners name paint on the bottom. Another says Stone, just so there's no confusion over what it might be. Maybe that also was the owner's name.

[FRJ]

It does my heart good to see these old stones.
I love old stones. There's some soul there.
Thank you, Lama, for showing those.
I hope you use them.

[edge213]

I posted these in another thread, but thought I’d share here.

This is the result of bids on two lots at auction last December. The shipping was more than the purchase price and some arrived chipped, but the way my wife rolled her eyes when she saw the pile was priceless. The photo was taken after most were degreased. Many were nearly black with old oil, glazed and clogged. The pile includes mostly Washita and India stones. There's a couple of translucent Arkansas, Carborundum, A lonely diamond hone, an Escher razor hone from Germany, and a purple one I still haven't identified. Almost all were working stones, so most of their labels are long gone or barely readable. Many had wooden boxes that arrive beyond repair. The ones set in wood are mostly shop made from a single board that was first augured with a bit and brace, then chiseled out. One has the owners name paint on the bottom. Another says Stone, just so there's no confusion over what it might be. Maybe that also was the owner's name.

Cool collection

[Lama]

It does my heart good to see these old stones.
I love old stones. There's some soul there.
Thank you, Lama, for showing those.
I hope you use them.

My pleasure, Joe. I have an affinity for old tools in general, including stones and knives. Theywork much better for me than what's available from the big box stores that have forced most locally owned neighborhood hardware stores out of business. I'll finish cleaning them and try out most. I also enjoy researching them, and plan to show a few here that may be of interest to others. But the fact is, I don't need forty odd sharpening stones from this pile plus the other thirty or so I've acquired in the past few years. So I'll keep the ones I like best and sell the rest to help feed my collecting habit.

[Lama]

I posted these in another thread, but thought I’d share here.

This is the result of bids on two lots at auction last December. The shipping was more than the purchase price and some arrived chipped, but the way my wife rolled her eyes when she saw the pile was priceless. The photo was taken after most were degreased. Many were nearly black with old oil, glazed and clogged. The pile includes mostly Washita and India stones. There's a couple of translucent Arkansas, Carborundum, A lonely diamond hone, an Escher razor hone from Germany, and a purple one I still haven't identified. Almost all were working stones, so most of their labels are long gone or barely readable. Many had wooden boxes that arrive beyond repair. The ones set in wood are mostly shop made from a single board that was first augured with a bit and brace, then chiseled out. One has the owners name paint on the bottom. Another says Stone, just so there's no confusion over what it might be. Maybe that also was the owner's name.

Cool collection

Thank you, David. This brings my pile of rocks up to about seventy or so.

[Lama]

Here are photos of two stones from the lot shown above. I think both are Washitas. The first is approximately 8" X 2". It is 1 3/16" at its thickest and tapers to 15/16" at its lowest. This is probably the most scooped stone I've seen. The bottom of the stone is flat. The box is carved from Pine and appears to have been painted on the outside. The sides and inside have a heavy layer of grim. I've been using all three in the shop with mineral oil cut with kerosene for about a week. This one is maybe the most aggressive Washitas I've ever used.

The second measures 7 1/2" X 1 7/8" X 1" with only about 1/16" scooped from the top. The bottom is nice and flat. This one is much harder, perfect for touching up a blade. The box is cut from what appears to be red pine. I think it was first drilled with a bit and brace, then carved out with a chisel. I cleaned and lightly sanded this one. There were pins cut from nails in the bottom to keep it from sliding on a table. These were removed because my work surface is melamine and I use a rubber mat or just hold them with my hand to keep stones still when I'm working on a blade.

[C-WADE7]

Here are photos of two stones from the lot shown above. I think both are Washitas.

I have one nearly the exact color as the bottom pics. It’s a good stone and mine is very old also.

[Lama]

Here are photos of two stones from the lot shown above. I think both are Washitas.

I have one nearly the exact color as the bottom pics. It’s a good stone and mine is very old also.

There's a seller on ebay with one with its original box which looks very similar. The lid is stamped, "#1 Washita." Does your stone still have its box?

[C-WADE7]

There's a seller on ebay with one with its original box which looks very similar. The lid is stamped, "#1 Washita." Does your stone still have its box?

Mine is in a wood box but it seems homemade to me. No labels or markings at all.

[Lama]

Mine is in a wood box but it seems homemade to me. No labels or markings at all.
[/quote]

I believe many of the Washitas to the trades were sold wrapped in paper, a card stock box or just a loose stone with a label attached directly to the stone. Hence the need for home or shop made boxes. A stone in a block of wood or a heavy box could be securely held in a vise without damage to the stone. Several of the shop made boxes have cut nails protruding from the bottom to keep them from sliding on a wooden table. Labels wouldn't have lasted long when constantly soaked in oil or were removed to use the backs of the stones. The manufacturer supplied wooden boxes for Lilly Whites and Arkansas Stones I've seen are light weight and seem more for storage than for hard use.

[C-WADE7]

Looking closer at the box and jointer it may have came in it. It’s thin wood.

[Lama]

That does appear to be an original mitered box. Are there remnants of a label or stamp on it? The stone also appears to be very even color, maybe a Lilly White. Here’s a link to an old catalogue listing showing a box with that kind of miter and a pamphlet from Pike describing different stones.

https://archive.org/details/PikeManufac ... 1/mode/1up

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... =2up&seq=4

[C-WADE7]

No label or remnant of one. I bought it at a garage sale for $5 several years ago.

[Lama]

No label or remnant of one. I bought it at a garage sale for $5 several years ago.

That was a good buy!