Rather & Co. Gunstock whittler?

[Paladin]

I'm surprised they just didn't use their car key. But I guess if you didn't have a car. I dawdle.

I think you nailed it - when the knife was probably made, folks didn't have cars. And house keys in those days were a little big for sticking into an ear!

Ken

My go to for ear wax is my Remington Knife Pick. Perfect size and shape.

Ray

[Rookie]

Is it possibly a light colored horn (ox or sheep?)

[Mumbleypeg]

Hadn’t thought of that, but I don’t think it’s horn. The strange thing is there are no signs of shrinkage or warping as I’ve seen on older horn, or celluloid. I’m still leaning to celluloid but need to do more testing to confirm, or rule it out. With magnification the thin edges along the liners have some minor chipping/flaking similar to what you sometimes see on the edges of older MOP covers, but not as conspicuous.

Ken

[peanut740]

Ken,you are the resident expert on Rather knives and have the largest known collection of them.

[Ridgegrass]

Ken, There was also a Wadsworth & Sons, Austria mark. last letter could be "&". Also could your other knife be smooth bone? The pics have some dark flecks the could be capillaries. Very cool knives. J.O'.

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks Roger. I may be a resident but I’m far from an expert!

John, I’m pretty sure the other is bone. Like you say, it has canals. No sign of canals on the recent acquisition.

Ken

[BenZion]

Hi guys,
You have a mini community here as I see. I also have one such mystery knife. And I’m inclined to consider this knife Bohemian. It seems that until 1918 Bohemia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire of the Habsburgs. After 1918, this area became known as Czechoslovakia. Bohemian knives are famous for their quality and design. And are highly valued by collectors. I hope I was able to help in some way. I was also glad to see other examples of this mysterious brand.

[BenZion]

Unfortunately, one scale was replaced with plastic. This poor thing came to me in this condition, but I intend to take it to a restorer and replace both scales with MOP. I suppose it will cost me twice the price of the knife. But I do not intend to give up. All its blades work perfectly and still click. So I decided to give it a second life.

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks for sharing both the knife and the information. Your knife appears very similar to the MOP gentleman’s grooming knife I have, just a few less blades. Fortunately mine had one good intact MOP cover, and a member here (Bill DeShivs) who is a master cutler was able to replace the broken cover for me with a closely matching piece of MOP. And you’re right, that repair cost more than acquiring the knife. To me at least, worth every cent. (Don’t tell Bill though, he may charge me more next time! ). I tend to agree the knife is of European origin, and Bohemia (or Austria) is a good guess. The intricate high quality workmanship is impressive.

Please come back here and show us pictures of the restored knife. And let us know if you learn anything else about it. Glad to know another is interested in the mystery of the Rather & Co. brand.

Welcome to AAPK.

Ken

[BenZion]

Thank you for the warm welcome, my friend.
The knives of this brand definitely deserve our attention and respect, at least because of their quality, rarity and lack of information
A little about myself: my name is Arie and my interest is in classic folding knives (hunting, gentleman's and EDC) of European and North American manufacture. I especially love vintage. I am also a member of the German knife forum. I have some information from the Wadsworth company mentioned here. But I think it would be incorrect to leave a link to another knife forum here. So if this information is valuable to you, guys, let me know and I will quote it. Also, many people were probably confused by the phrase in French in this knife. I can try to explain this by the fashion for everything French that is related to beauty, care and luxury items. As already written above, these knives are items of gentlemanly self-care, which relates to beauty.

[Mumbleypeg]

Arie, please do share any information you have. There is a thread about Wadsworth here in the European Knives subforum, so that might be a place to post anything you have about the company, and any of their knives. https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kn ... hp?t=76587

I know of no prohibition here regarding posting links to other sites provided they’re not for the purpose of promoting items for sale. One of the site administrators will correct me if I’m wrong.

One thing I’ve noticed common to many of the Rather & Co. knives shown here is the underlined “o” in the abbreviation for “company”. That seems typical, but not exclusive, of knives having German origin. Not sure if that observation helps, or just adds to the mystery?

Ken

[BenZion]

Okay, Ken
I'm new here and I don't want to do something wrong at the very beginning so I'll translate from German and quote here what my friends from MF write. Maybe it will shed some light and give us some ideas:

«The "manufacturer" is a fake: Wadsworth Austria never built a knife!
Wadsworth was a trademark of the US company Adolph Kastor & Bros. for the purpose of importing knives, supplemented by Austria or Germany depending on the source. US sources also explicitly mention the source from Czechoslovakia.

As a collector of Bohemian knives, this is when I finally realized that this was the case. Austria = Bohemia, the center of Austrian cutlery manufacturers until 1918, and from 1919 Czechoslovakia: two countries, the same place!
Conclusion: My "Wadsworth Austria" is most certainly Bohemian and probably older than 1918!

The whole story from USA - Solingen - Austria:
1870: 14-year-old Adolph Kastor immigrated to the United States, where he learned the trade in his uncle's business.
1876: Necessity turns Adolph K. into an entrepreneur; his uncle's business closes its doors. On his journey from "dishwasher to riches," he uses his contacts in Solingen and Europe to import exquisite goods from the Old Continent.
1897: Necessity turns Adolph K. into a cutlery producer and later a major entrepreneur. Restrictive import policies force him to manufacture in his own country. In 1902, he buys a small business, Camillus NY, and turns it into Camillus Cutlery Company, an empire in the knife industry.
After the restrictions are relaxed, he resumes importing.

In Solingen, his brother Nathan builds up the Kastor & Co. manufactory since 1892, which later becomes one of the largest exporters of cutlery, primarily to the USA. Whether coincidence or strategic entrepreneurship, the two business areas probably complemented each other excellently. XLNT, so to speak, was the mark registered by Kastor & Co., Solingen, in 1896 – the US brother also used it for his Wadsworth import brand.
Tragically, while Adolph flourished his US business, another Adolf (Hitler) destroyed the existence of the Solingen branch of the family, who were of Jewish origin.»

I asked my friend, a great connoisseur and lover of Bohemian knives. But even he had never heard of Rather & Co., but he told me about Wadsworth. So, Wadsworth is not a knife manufacturer, but a distributor of goods from Europe in the USA. It is quite possible that they brought knives to Texas.

[BenZion]

One thing I’ve noticed common to many of the Rather & Co. knives shown here is the underlined “o” in the abbreviation for “company”. That seems typical, but not exclusive, of knives having German origin. Not sure if that observation helps, or just adds to the mystery?

Ken

I understand what you mean, Ken. But in German, colons are used on top of letters instead of underscores to change the pronunciation of vowels. Like in the name Boker. Some hallmarks have two dots on top of the "O". You are very attentive and it is clear that these knives have been bothering you for several years. I hope that together we can solve their mystery. But for now, one thing is clear: Rather & Co is definitely not German nonsense. I have not posted my knife on MF yet because I want to get it in order first. I hope to do this soon and get feedback from experts. As a backup, we also have the Czech knife forum. Maybe the local guys can help us with something.

[ea42]

One thing I’ve noticed common to many of the Rather & Co. knives shown here is the underlined “o” in the abbreviation for “company”. That seems typical, but not exclusive, of knives having German origin. Not sure if that observation helps, or just adds to the mystery?

Ken

I understand what you mean, Ken. But in German, colons are used on top of letters instead of underscores to change the pronunciation of vowels. Like in the name Boker. Some hallmarks have two dots on top of the "O". You are very attentive and it is clear that these knives have been bothering you for several years. I hope that together we can solve their mystery. But for now, one thing is clear: Rather & Co is definitely not German nonsense. I have not posted my knife on MF yet because I want to get it in order first. I hope to do this soon and get feedback from experts. As a backup, we also have the Czech knife forum. Maybe the local guys can help us with something.

BenZion I don't think Ken was referring to colons or umlauts, he was referring to the line under the O in Co. That's very often an indication of German (or its environs) origin.

Eric

[Mumbleypeg]

Correct. I was referring to the underlined o as shown by Eric in his post. Sometimes known in English as a “superior” letter. I’m unaware of its analog in German but for whatever reason it seems common on German-made knives, especially those made for export and stamped with anglicized company names.

BTW I speak German, at least I used to. (I don’t get much verbal practice but can still read it, especially if given some time to decipher). So I’m well acquainted with the umlaut. In fact years ago my German teacher, a native of Hamburg Germany, drilled us considerably on the unfamiliar (to English speakers) sounds required for authentic German “Hochdeutsch” pronunciation of vowels having umlauts. Indelibly etched into my brain even years later.

I do appreciate all help deciphering the Rather & Co. mystery. I enjoy learning about history, including such trivia.

Ken

[BenZion]

BenZion I don't think Ken was referring to colons or umlauts, he was referring to the line under the O in Co. That's very often an indication of German (or its environs) origin.

Eric
[/quote]

I didn't know about this before.
Thanks, Eric, I learned something new today.

[BenZion]

Correct. I was referring to the underlined o, as shown by Eric in his post. Sometimes known in English as a “superior” letter. I’m unaware of its analog in German but for whatever reason it seems common on German-made knives, especially those made for export and stamped with anglicized company names.

I speak German, at least I used to. (I don’t get much verbal practice but can still read it, especially if given some time to decipher). So I’m well acquainted with the umlaut. In fact years ago my German teacher, a native of Hamburg Germany, drilled us considerably on the unfamiliar (to English speakers) sounds required for authentic German “Hochdeutsch” pronunciation of vowels having umlauts. Indelibly etched into my brain even years later.

I do appreciate all help deciphering the Rather & Co. mystery. I enjoy learning about history, including such trivia.

Ken

I didn't know about that before. I'll have to look into it. Thanks, Ken.

[Wildebeest90210]

I found this today in an antique shop in the UK, Oxfordshire. I collect a little and this caught my eye, it has a rough repair but the quality is evident and it has a really nicely made stiletto blade and the feeling and balance is of quality. I paid £50 which I was happy with but was surprised that there is such limited information about the manufacturer.

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[Mumbleypeg]

Thank you for posting pictures of the knife here, and welcome to AAPK. It’s a beautiful knife. I’ve been searching off and on with little success for information about the Rather & Co., and Acier Superfine stamps, for over 10 years. The (unconfirmed) anecdotal evidence is the knives, at least many of them, are of European manufacture, probably Bohemian, and produced during latter half of the 19th century through about 1940. All of that is based on observation and speculation only, and is shared in posts by members here on AAPK.

More information is always welcome as the search goes on.

Ken

[doglegg]

I found this today in an antique shop in the UK, Oxfordshire. I collect a little and this caught my eye, it has a rough repair but the quality is evident and it has a really nicely made stiletto blade and the feeling and balance is of quality. I paid £50 which I was happy with but was surprised that there is such limited information about the manufacturer.


IMG_9604.jpg


IMG_9605.jpg


IMG_9608.jpg

That is a beautiful and desirable knife. Congrats.

[Mumbleypeg]

Thanks for the link Skip. I read all that is offered there. Surprised to see what is obviously a reference to me (Ken) by the same person (Arie, aka BenZion) who posted previously in this thread. (I would correct his comment about Americans not even knowing of the existence of Czechoslovakia, since my son lives in Prague, Czechia!)

Alas after reading through it entirely, including the speculation about the Kastor connection, Arie's conclusion in the last post is we still don't know anything conclusive about Rather & Co., except the knives so marked are of high quality, and not from Kastor.

Ken

Edit: Skip, what happened to your post containing the link to the German knife site? https://messerforum.net/threads/kastors ... 26%20Co%3F