6OT question

[coffeecup]

Was the 6OT ever made with a carbon-steel blade? I really like the knife, but would prefer a non-stainless blade.
Thanks,
Jim

[ozzie marie]

coffeecup,

According to A Catalog History of Schrade Knives by Robert Clemente the Schrade Old Timer 6OT Golden Bear was produced from 1991-1995 with a High Carbon Steel Blade.

Keith

[coffeecup]

Thanks! I did some work recently comparing several knives for edge-holding ability while working; Schrade's high-carbon steel was a close second to my control. I'll start looking for a rusty 6OT!

Jim

[orvet]

Jim,
What was your control?

Dale

[coffeecup]

Guess I could detail that.

The test was set up to compare edge-holding of several folding hunter-pattern knives, as I use them. The control/comparison piece was an old 3-dot Buck 110, with 440C blade. I've no idea what the actual angle of sharpening is on this one, the angle I use is one established after some fairly extensive testing back when I was a kid--I'd skin deer etc for friends in order to test angles, edge-holding, etc. This knife also established my expectations of a hunting knife: that it field dress and skin a deer/elk or similar without sharpening.

The test involved skinning a steer we were converting to convenient-sized pieces. The plan was to use each knife to skin a quarter of the steer, then compare the edges. I started the test with the steer basically "field dressed." I've now done this twice, switching quarters (so a knife used on a front quarter in the first test was used on a hind quarter, and vice-versa). Results were similar.

The knives used for comparison were:
#1 control (Buck 110, 3-dot). Note, the blade has been slightly tipped and re-ground
#2 a 7OT with carbon-steel blade (pitted, actually), sharpened as with #1
#3 a 6OT with stainless blade, sharpened as with #1
#4 an LB-7 with factory edge

It didn't work out that way. The Buck did the quarter with no problems. The 7OT did about as well. I had to push the 6OT to finish that quarter, and the LB-7 quarter was almost finished when I gave up and got another knife.

Comparing the knives afterwards, the Buck was OK--I could have steeled it and kept going. The 7OT might have been OK if just steeled, but I went ahead and honed it. The 6OT and the LB-7 definitely need to be sharpened, the edge is gone on the LB-7.

I'm not sure the results are really applicable for anyone else. Someone else might have different preferences, sharpening methods, work methods, etc.

The 6OT, with a loop of paracord through the thong hole, had the best ergonomics for me. Many people don't like the lack of weight, but it is something I value. Until the edge was gone, I worked faster with this knife. I don't know if a similar set up with a thong would increase the usability of the other knives, haven't tried it.

At the angle of sharpening used, the Buck held the edge the best but the 7OT was close: close enough that I am going to work with it some more. But my conclusion was that of these four knives, a 6OT with high-carbon blade would be optimum for me.

For now, at least!

Jim

[thawk]

Interesting test CoffeeCup. Sounds like a pretty thorough test for skinning performance. I am not sure about the Clemente Book and carbon 6OT. The list on this site says 1995 was the first year for the 6OT, and the short line catalogs seem to reflect that. The 1995 Catalog says "NEW" and SCHRADE+ steel. If there are carbon 6OT's out there, they might be a tough find.

[ozzie marie]

Hawk,

Your right I reread the discription in the book and they were talking about the 6OT's predecessor the 7OT which was manufactured starting in 1991.

High Carbon Steel was used on the 7OT untill the introduction of the 6OT in 1995 and at that time Schrade produced them both with Stainless Steel Blades.

I stand corrected

Keith

[thawk]

Hawk,

Your right I reread the discription in the book and they were talking about the 6OT's predecessor the 7OT which was manufactured starting in 1991.

High Carbon Steel was used on the 7OT untill the introduction of the 6OT in 1995 and at that time Schrade produced them both with Stainless Steel Blades.

I stand corrected

Keith

That's good to know, because I wasn't sure about the history of the 7-OT. I thought maybe I'd seen them in both carbon and stainless but was not sure.

[coffeecup]

Hawk,

Your right I reread the discription in the book and they were talking about the 6OT's predecessor the 7OT which was manufactured starting in 1991.

High Carbon Steel was used on the 7OT untill the introduction of the 6OT in 1995 and at that time Schrade produced them both with Stainless Steel Blades.

I stand corrected

Keith

ARGH. I may have to find a couple more carbon 7OTs and introduce the rear bolster to Mr. Milling Machine, or even Mr Hacksaw and Mr. File. Might be easier to re-blade a 6OT with a custom blade in 52100, giving me the best of all worlds.

Now to find the time to make new blades . . .

Thanks for the information, guys!
Jim

[orvet]

Jim,
Why not put a carbon steel LB-7 blade in the 6OT frame?

Dale

[coffeecup]

Um, because I'm three days into studying for a final exam and just not thinking straight?

Jim

[orvet]

I have done that before.......

[Aimus Moses]

I wear the Dunce hat in the Schrade class room, but I seem to recall that the 6OT was only made with the Schrade+ stainless steel blade, and none were ever made with a 1095 carbon steel blade. I have several 7OT's with 1095 carbon steel blades, two 3 pins and a 4 pin. I've used only one of them, the others are near mint and in the knife roll. I've also got a 7OT with the Schrade+ stainless steel blade. I can't say how it holds up because I've never used it either, another knife in the roll. I have several, 6 or 8 Schrade LB-7's. 3 pins and 4 pins models. Some with Uncle Henry on the tang stamp and some with out it, and those without it have the larger letters spelling the word Schrade on the tang. All my Schrade knives are USA Schrades. I've often found the larger lockback Schrade+ stainless steel bladed knives to be very good at holding an edge and make a good work knife. Honestly, I'm a 1095 carbon steel fan, but I have to admit that in my experience with both steels by the same maker, my LB-7 Schrade+ stainless steel bladed lockback knife is better at holding an edge than my 7OT with 1095 carbon steel blade is. It's also better at holding an edge than my Buck 110 lockback with 420HC stainless steel blade. As Coffeecup said, other's mileage may differ. Maybe it was the temper job done to my 1095 carbon steel knife that was off the mark. It's a known fact that a bad blade will get by QC and be bought by a customer that doesn't like it. Maybe my LB-7 had a 440C stainless steel blade (that's just a guess on my part but I did hear once that Schrade used some 440C in their early made knives)? I had a couple of Old Timer pocket knives that were 1095 carbon steel bladed that I had a bad, bad problem with them holding an edge. I believe those knives would dull by just carrying them in my pocket. The steel was too soft for some reason. Almost turned me against Schrade Old Timers until I bought a couple more (different patterns) and they were fine knives. I guess it's like Dale says, anything is possible when it comes to Schrade.

Aimus

[coffeecup]

You've got some good points here. Quick questions: are the 1095 7-OT, the Schrade+ LB-7, and the 420HC Buck sharpened at the same angles? That is one problem with the test I did--I used the angle I'd settled on for the Buck on the 6-OT and 7-OT test knives, and the LB-7 still had the factory edge. In that sense, it really wasn't a fair test.

Your comparison of your LB-7 to a 420HC Buck 110 is interesting; I had a similar thought while I was doing the test.

I can't complain about the edge-holding ability of Schrade+ steel in day-to-day use. Any of the knives would have been perfectly satisfactory to field-dress and skin a deer or probably even an elk. The Buck has done all that and more.

I wonder what Schrade's tolerances were for heat treatment? The 194OT I carry most of the time just doesn't seem to hold an edge quite as well as the other 194OTs I have. I've increased the angle of the edge, and it does OK but not great. I just received a 293 that is the opposite; I think it may have the hardest blades I've ever seen on a Schrade. Maybe the 194OT is at the lower end of the tolerance and the 293 at the upper end.

I suspect I'll be sending a 6-OT off to Orvet for blade replacement, then I'll see if there is any actual improvement or if it is just my imagination!

Jim

[Aimus Moses]

Jim, to be honest, I can't say that each knife had the same exact sharpened angle on the blade. I sharpen all my knives, and everything else with an edge, free handed, so it's quite possible that one or all three of the knive's blade sharpened angle was different. I did try different angles on those Old Timers that would dull so easy. It didn't make any difference with them. I just chalked those knives up to possibly bad steel or the tempering job being done on a Monday morning or Friday evening.

Aimus

[justold52]

I have one small point that is not said here so far.

I have a friend that kills and cleans many wild pigs.

The field dressing is very hard on the edge do to the fact they have lots of sand and mud in the hair. You almost need two knives to do the job. Gut hooks work good but they are a bear to sharpen again.

Just wanted to add some dirt to this interesting fourm.

Is one deer from the woods and the other one from the swamp ?

[coffeecup]

You've got a good point Justold52, and one that is often ignored. In a test such as this we should also consider the condition of the hide being cut--clean, muddy, wet, long or short hair, etc.

To better-explain what I was doing I should note the technique used. When skinning etc, except for the initial incision I work from the inside of the hide. This largely avoids problems with dirt etc. (It also partially-explains my strong preference for drop points, spear points, and spey blades; clip points have a way of making unwanted cuts when you are working like this.) I've often thought that replacing the clip blade in a Schrade 294 with the spey blade from a 293 would result in an excellent hunting knife, given the way I work.

[justold52]

Hi again coffeecup;

When skinning etc, except for the initial incision I work from the inside of the hide. Is there any other way to skin a deer ?

Its the inital incision on the pigs that is so hard on the cutting edge. Perhars I was not very clear on that. Sand and dirt is what kills a knife past useing the steel.

Thank you very much for taking your time on this with us...

[coffeecup]

Hi again coffeecup;

When skinning etc, except for the initial incision I work from the inside of the hide. Is there any other way to skin a deer ?

Its the inital incision on the pigs that is so hard on the cutting edge. Perhars I was not very clear on that. Sand and dirt is what kills a knife past useing the steel.

Thank you very much for taking your time on this with us...

Some folks seem to think they have to do all the cutting from the outside of an animal, much as is done in packing plants etc. There are advantages to this, it is usually faster and not as messy. It's also easier--you can clearly see what you're doing.

When skinning, my initial incision is typically just large enough to get the blade under the skin. A year or so ago I did several pigs one afternoon with one Imperial barlow, and didn't have to sharpen the knife at all. The trick was using the pen blade to make the small initial incision.

Let's imagine two hunters used identical LB-7s to dress and skin two big game animals, one hunter using the "outside cut" approach and one using the "inside cut" approach. If we examined the edges under magnification, we would probably see two distinct patterns of wear. The "outside cut" hunter's knife would tend to show greatest wear in the 1/2 - 3/4" or so at the tip, and almost as much wear in the straight section of the cutting edge. The knife of the hunter using the "inside cut" approach would tend to show wear concentrated in the area of curvature near the tip, roughly the last 1 1/4 -1 1/2" of the cutting edge.

My kid brother is an "outside cutter," so we actually did this test a few years ago with a couple hogs. Both approaches worked fine, and I suspect if we had similar experience they'd work about as quickly for each of us. Examining the carcasses afterwards, it looked like his hog had a number of cuts that nicked the bone: another cause of loss-of-sharpness.

One hybrid solution is the use of something like a Wyoming knife, sort of like a gut hook with disposable blades. They make it easy to see the wear concentrated in one point. One of my nephews uses one of these, and he is fast (except for the time lost to changing blades!). Before that he used a guthook, and sharpened with a dremel rig.

Jim