First US Based Producer

[Guest]

Hi everyone. Does anyone know who the first US based producer of pocket knives was and any other information about them? e.g. where the factory was located, what type of knives they made etc. Thanks. s-k

[smiling-knife]

oops. forgot to log-in For some reason I have to log-in everytime I return to the page. s-k

[lt632ret]

Waterville out ot CT was considered the first factory made knife producer, However Lyman Bradley who later was involved with Waterville (also CT) and was the manager or owner had made knives from around 1840 and Waterville was about 1843 . The general consensus is that prior to this it was small forge or family production where most American knives were made mostly though Americans used imports. Humm sounds familiar All the information regarding these early companys can be found in New England Cutlery by Pankiewiez. Waterville was around for a while so while rare examples are available I have a couple but since I want to test this picture thingy and how to post on this site I have added a picture of the rarer Bradley. This one is in real tortise ( it was allowed then ). Note beware of Bradley knives becuase of there rarity and value they are often counterfeited. OK lets see if I can make the picture work. LT

[mumblypeg]

Good info there, LT. Another book I need to check out....
BTW- Great Knife!

[W5RWU]

LT ,
how old is this knife? Is this from the 1840's ? Man it looks good!
Randy

[jonet143]

welcome lt, that's a knife with some stories i'll wager

[lt632ret]

It is according to several experts and for what it is worth my opinion a correct Lyman Bradley circa 1840-1843.

[smiling-knife]

Wow... thanks for that post lt632ret. Very educational and outstanding old knife. Warm welcome to the site by the way s-k

[LRV]

LT,
As just a point of reference what would you expect the rare Bradley knife to bring at a collectors sale? Great stuff. You must be ready for another out building about now! Please keep bringing out these treasures for us to see.
Thanks

[lt632ret]

A tough thing to determine it would probably bring 50 cents at a yard sale however in a room filled with people afflicted with my kind of madness who knows when i was looking for one I would have paid whatever was needed. as it was I probably gave a few hundred ( I honestly do not remember. ) I really cannot think of an amount I would take. Not that it is a big deal just something I prefer to have and am not financially forced to sell.

See how I didn't answer your question I hate when people do that so as low as a few hundred as high as 1000 perhapes 1500. Truly it is tough to tell. LT

[upnorth]

What's it worth to a knife collector to own one of the oldest American-made pocketknives ever???????
I'd be seriously tempted at $1500!!!
It is madness, but so what???

[stockman]

waterville posted on a earlier forum, click two times

Stockman

[CCBill]

Hi, LT
Just wondering. Is the split backspring in your Bradley, 1 piece or 2? I have an old G. Crookes that the backspring is 1 piece, but is split about halfway down the length of it. I think this old knife probably dates about civil war or maybe a little earlier.
When did makers go from a 1 piece to a 2 piece?
The knife is not in great condition, but all 3 blades still have some snap.
Thank you...CCBill...

[lt632ret]

Here is a fuzzy pic of the Bradley it is not a split backspring. One of the things I like about pocket knives is that there is very little that has changed regarding the physical style technology. It is a study in which older knives are often superior to modern products due to the workmanship of then and now. This is unlike many studies in which advances made improves and changes the product ( like say a car ). Slip joints today are pretty much subject to the same physical laws today as they were then. Just now a machine punchs out a piece that used to be carefully made with pride and workmanship. This being said the point is split springs have really been around as long as regular one piece springs the concept was not that foreign to the technology and was then and still is incorporated in the manufacture. I also included a pic of the Bradley tang which someone wrote and asked for and since I had it out I snapped a shot. This way if someone finds a cigar box full of these at a yard sale they will know what they are. LT

[Bentime]

Man, those are some great old knives. I love the Lyman Bradley stuff especially.
There is an article in June, 2012 Knife World I helped write, which includes some information on Lyman Bradley, the first US commercial venture, bringing in English cutlers. The first shop was on Water Street in Naugatuck, CT (then Salem), there was a neighborhood for the English workers established nearby.
In that article the first knives were referenced as being stamped L Bradley & Co Salem. I still have never seen any with that stamp, but since the article have seen one stamped Bradley and Beecher, which I believe to have been the original stamping, since the first privilege was granted to Lyman Bradley and George Beecher in 1841. It is a very, very tired, but very cool old knife. You have to look under a scope to accurately read the Beecher portion, but it's for real
Bradley's next shop was near the convergence of Naugatuck, Middlebury and Waterbury, on Hop Brook. It was originally a sawmill in 1752. It was located in what is referred to as the Bradleyville section of Middlebury, off Allerton Farm Rd. I believe (not positive) that the old Middlebury knife shop property is now part of the US Corps of Engineer property where Hop Brook Dam is located. There is a Waterbury republican, April 20, 1952 article giving some details of the location off Allerton Rd.
I hope this is interesting to someone besides me.

[JAMESC41001]

Good stuff, thanx for posting! Keep it coming

[lt632ret]

What a great time for you to repond any info on Bradley would be appreciated I am doing some work on the history of knives in the Hudson valley of course bradley while not in the hudson valley was where the first cutlers who went to NYK came from. my email is [email protected]

[Miller Bro's]

The earliest U.S. producer of knives in the country that I know of was David Ropes from the state of Maine circa 1832. By 1845 he moved his cutlery operation from Maine to Meriden Connecticut.

[lt632ret]

I am sure that you are correct however generally Bradley is usually accepted as the first sucessful cutlery company . Frankly I am not familiar with the company you mention but it does not surprise me. There were blacksmiths and family operations popping up all over . Any information or reference you might have would certainly would be great to know about. Bradley is important to me because of the part he played when 16 of his cutlers quit to start a COOP knife company ie NYK in Mattewan. They increased the taxes on knives and Bradley passed the cost on to his cutlers by having them pay for there own tool hammers ect. So they told him to shove his jobs where the sun don't shine and off they went to start NYK and begin a tradition of Hudson valley knives that went on for 150+ years.

[lt632ret]

Miller Bros I believe you are the fellow who used to have the Miller Bros gravity knife avatar. I believe I was in contact because I needed one for my collection and we discussed it. If it is you you have a new avatar Also I am not sure on what forum we discussed it . So if it is you and we discussed it I have something I want to show you . If I am wrong well then I am sorry and apparently confused anyway here goes we discussed trying to find a Miller grav I believe you have a couple. I do not really go to shows in fact I have not been posting I have been busy with the museum. Anyway I got wind of a Miller grav but it was pretty banged up and quite expensive. Then a friend informed me of another with celluloid handles I knew they were not original but my interest was up. I knew the dealer who had it . Turns out it belonged to the original owner of Colonial knife apparently he had put the thick handles on it years before and it was given to his son. with some others The son wrote a book about his family and the same knife was in it. I got the knife and the book. It is not original but it is an example and the colonial connection really makes it a neat piece of history. I am posting some pics but wanted to bring you up to date because you were and always have been helpful and I appreciate it. Aside from that one and the wrecked one I have not seen another but frankly this fills the position in my collect in two ways it is an example of the mech and knife and has a historical backround. I hope you have been well Regards LT

[Bentime]

Miller Bros,

Thanks on the input Re: D Ropes in Maine, I looked him up in Philip Pankiewicz's NE Cutlery book and you are totally correct. They apparently manufactured table knives before moving to Meriden in 1846 and the company ultimately became Meriden Cutlery.
I was referring to Lyman Bradley as the first manufacture of pocket knives as a large scale commercial venture. Hey, I can certainly be wrong, I'm pretty good at it.

[lt632ret]

You are both right but what is most important is that this minutia is important enough to you to take the time to research and confirm. It is only by the efforts of those who understand the legacy of this segment of history that it is not forgotten. Nothing is ever cut and dry ( pardon the pun ), in a study such as this, it is rather through the mutual research be it from those who have lived it, ( now pretty well gone from the older periods ), to artifacts to whatever may have been written or passed on. We often do not realise that what today is current affairs is tomorrows history, American Schrades and the travesty of there passing into the present Chinese product is 10 years old already. Without americans who understand the importance of keeping the legacy and history of our forefathers alive, we jeopardise our very heritage. When a kid today gets a new Schrade do you think he cares where it was made, or even if these were ever made here, by people who came to this country in search of a new life and the rights and freedoms it offered, who made the blades that kept america free in WWI and WWII and korea and on. A lot of steel washed in blood ours and theres.. He looks at it and says "gee dad what a great knife" and his father will reply "yes son the Chinese always made a great Schrade". Sorry it may be the way of the world but it makes me sick. To bad it was pre Bail out or Schrade might still be with us. By the way I just read that GM who was bailed out to the tune of 80 billion dollars, (american taxpayers dollars ), now makes 7 out of 10 cars in China. Oh well you can tell I am an old fart because i ramble and rant. So getting back to the initial point thankyou all for caring and keeping this segment of history which is our birthright alive. LT

[Miller Bro's]

Miller Bros,

Thanks on the input Re: D Ropes in Maine, I looked him up in Philip Pankiewicz's NE Cutlery book and you are totally correct. They apparently manufactured table knives before moving to Meriden in 1846 and the company ultimately became Meriden Cutlery.
I was referring to Lyman Bradley as the first manufacture of pocket knives as a large scale commercial venture. Hey, I can certainly be wrong, I'm pretty good at it.

Thank you for posting here, we need all the members interested in knife history that we can get.

[Miller Bro's]

When a kid today gets a new Schrade do you think he cares where it was made, or even if these were ever made here, by people who came to this country in search of a new life and the rights and freedoms it offered, who made the blades that kept america free in WWI and WWII and korea and on. A lot of steel washed in blood ours and theres.. He looks at it and says "gee dad what a great knife" and his father will reply "yes son the Chinese always made a great Schrade". Sorry it may be the way of the world but it makes me sick.

I agree with everything you said, and what a sad commentary on our current society.

I blame the school system and the parents. I have not set foot in a public school in decades but around here industrial arts are nonexistent in the school curriculum I am sure. I work with several "20 something year olds" and let me tell you I can`t find one has any decent manual skills or common sense for that matter, I am sure there are some out there but they are few and far between.

[lt632ret]

I sometimes go up to Canal street Cutlery in Ellenville. It is the same physical location that was the home of Ulster knife and then Ulster and Schrade before it moved to the old Channel Master plant. The handful of workers for the most part are people who had worked for schrade for years. When the machines are humming and these people are at work it is like watching a symphony. Perhapes that sounds overly dramatic but in those 7 or eight people there is probably 300 years of experience. It is quite obvious that you are watching hands on craftmanship that is of a by gone age. Aside from some specialized rudimentary manual physical dexterity, primarily with weapons and there use, I have never been very good with tools. I used to say that I could look at a hammer from across the room and it would fly off and assault me. when I loosen things they break. When I was younger and if angry while changing a spare tie I often would break the tire iron, ( usually the cheap imported ones that came with the used cars I bought ). I am much older now I call AAA. I love the expression measure twice cut once. I could measure 12 times and get 12 results. I mean i could always build or repair something it just never came out quite right a bit crooked, still leaking a little , extra screws or parts left over. Never neat never professional. perhapes that is why I appreciate watching a craftsman who is really proficient and can create an object of beauty like an artist. I am not looking for sympathy what I lacked on the one hand I made up by being able to study a topic overnite and get high marks on tests, things like chess and almost anything I did not have to translate into taking from my mind and turning into a physical reality I always did well with. This ability was not a total loss since in my 26 years with the NYS dept of correction it may have saved some injurys or lives. In any event our capabilitys or lack of such come from a higher authority our job is to use them to the best of our ability. However there are some traits that are a matter of how we are taught to believe and act. The pride in what we produce, honor, morality , the simple difference between right and wrong. All pretty corny stuff but , This is the kind of stuff that made cutlers leave extended familys sail thousands of miles to start over in a far away land because they would not suffer there human rights or the futures of there familys for a secure job in a safe if abusive world. That is what must be saved . Generations to come will be paying for our present sloth loss of honesty. and failure to support this country and its working people. These lessons of the past that the cutlery industry as well as other studys of this countrys history exemplify why they must not be forgotten. I recently read a story of a veteran in his 80tys who was asked to speak about his war experiences. He was introduced by a teacher in her early 20tys who introduced him as a veteran of WW ELEVEN. ( obviously misinterpreting WWII. ). Those who forget the lessons of the past are destined to relive them. LT.