strange tang stamp

[daddyrog]

I have an old schrade stamped
schrade
cut co
walden NY
on one side of master blade; and
US
cut co
Balto, MD
on the back side; small blade stamped like the back side of master; anyone seen this before.

[mrsteel]

Post a picture!

[daddyrog]

sorry; the schrade is on the back of the blade and us cut on front

[daddyrog]

sorry not much good with pic's.

[msteele6]

-

Unusual, Goins gives a date of 1875-1900 for U.S. Cut. Co. Balto. Md. and Schrade Cut. Co. from 1904 - 1946. That's a problem. The knife itself definitely looks like a Schrade Cut. Co. I have no idea what a U.S. Cut. Co. knife looks like.

-

[orvet]

I have not seen that before.
It looks like a Schrade Cut Co, especially that handle material.

I sent a link to LT. He should know if anyone does.

Dale

[ea42]

Likely it was an early contract knife, I don't believe US Cut. Co was a knife producer, rather they were a wholesaler. May have survived somewhat longer that Goins states. Here's one that appears to be the same pattern, #2424, with this particular one having the cocobola celluloid handles. I've scanned it next to its catalog image:

Eric

[lt632ret]

What a nice abnomality how or why it happened would be pure speculation but lets look at what we can tell first of all the US marking is on the correct side of the blade. Second the knife is a Schrade pattern . Third the company in question was out of business before Schrade even started making knives . I cannot see the Schrade marking so I cannot determine the vintage of the Schrade stamp I cannot see if it is curved or not but this style knife is usually 30tys or 40tys not pre WWI . So this puts even more time between the two companies.

It is unusual for a Schrade to come through with the stamp on the wrong side but that is not as rare as having one with two stamps one of which is from a firm obsolete before Schrade even started production. Lets say that a Schrade did come through with the Schrade tang on the wrong side . First of all is that even plausible it did sometimes happen but how or why would it. To understand how this could happen you must first understand the process. About a week ago I was at Canal street and actually was watching some blades being stamped the process was the same then as it is now in fact the machinery doing it was the original Schrade machinery and could have been the machine that marked this very knife. It is a press with a die in it the blade put in position and the metal marked with the machine strike. Not exactly rocket science but it worked then and works now. The blade could have been placed either side up and I am sure that when someone in days gone by had to do thousands a day either by mistake or design some were placed wrong. It could have been an old die used to test the stamping machine or for any of a myriad of reasons. These were supposed to be culled by quality control and I am sure most were but lets say someones father or relative or even themselves had been employed by making US Maryland knives at some time all that was needed was an old tang stamp and someone would have a really unusual keepsake and an enigma for future knife nuts ( such as myself to vainly ponder). Applying a tang stamp does not even have to be done on a press even a large vise with an extra large piece of pipe as a lever can get it done. But if someone was working in the factory a wrongly marked blade( now a second) could have the other side stamped with the US stamp by simply changing the die and punching the blade then the worker could assemble his one of a kind and have a momento of both companies. The whole thing could have been done on a lunch break. Chances are Eric ( EA) is correct and this company was a contract firm if so a lot of firms in the area could have been the originator of the die. Since G Schrade left Walden knife to start to Start Schrade he took employees with him . New York knife also was around during the correct time frame also Ulster knife may have supplied the contract ( also called Ellenville knife ) . They were there during the correct time period and were in the same building as where Schrade were later made. There were others as well.

As far as obsolete tang stamps are concerned they were definitely there I can attest to that I have hundreds perhapes thousands many from companies long gone that came from the the Schrade plant and had been collecting for decades so they were and still are around. Humm perhapes I ought to dig up a rare one and pop something strange on the back of a canal st how about Canal street on one side and Ulster on the other after all they are and were made in the same building . See how easy it is and it is exactly what may have happened with this knife 70 years ago.

Remember how I started this discourse SPECULATION since we cannot ever know for sure I offer this as one possible answer . These items are no different than artifacts from any era It is like the crusty old egyptoligist on TV who stares at a 4000 year old body and comes up with it being King TUTS second cousin third removed believe me it sounds good but it to is, speculation. a best guess. If nothing else I hope you might find the reading interesting and it shows an example of why this uniquely american history and heritage should be preserved . LT

[tongueriver]

Lt's theory is as good as any and better than most. What if somebody walked into the stamping room at Schrade and said "Look at this box of blades some old guy gave me from years ago. Let's have some fun and put them into knives and put our stamp on the pile side." "Sure! Why not! Let's see what they look like!" ?

[daddyrog]

very good read LT; I'll try and get a better pic of the schrade side;

[daddyrog]

Hope these are better

[daddyrog]

tried another camera; click to enlarge

[orvet]

Much better pictures, Thank you.

LT - Thank you for your insight and theory.
Like Calvin said, it makes as much sense as any other theory and more than most.

Dale

[lt632ret]

Scuttlebutt has it that Dale ie ORVET is our newest published author congrats on the article which is ( I believe have not seen it ) in this months Knifeworld on guess what tangstamps and such. At least that is the rumor but I wanted to be the first to congratulate you. As I said I have not seen it so I hope I got the info correct. Knowing knifeworlds budget I assume you will be taking a world tour with your royaltys from the article. Actually authors of knife books articles and such do so out of love of the subject. Unless your name is Monica Lewinsky or similar and write on the subject of love you usually do not receive great financial renumeration. Well done Marine. LT

[orvet]

Thanks LT!
I am still working on the Schrade tang stamp article. That is for some future issue, after more research.
I would like to thank you personally LT, for the many hours you have spent trying to teach me the ways of all things Schrade. You have been an outstanding teacher and mentor. I do appreciate your continuous assistance and encouragement.


I just received an advance copy of the new Knife World. Mark & crew did an excellent job of laying out my article.

There is also a front-page article by another of our AAPK members in this new issue as well. Steve Garger (SteveG) has an excellent article about Vic Hangas of Ruana Knives. Steve’s name is familiar to both readers of Knife World and Blade Magazine. Nice job Steve!

Dale

[daddyrog]

Still searching and still no luck finding anything like it; maybe LT is correct.

[ringergary]

[quote="msteele6"]-

Unusual, Goins gives a date of 1875-1900 for U.S. Cut. Co. Balto. Md. and Schrade Cut. Co. from 1904 - 1946. That's a problem. The knife itself definitely looks like a Schrade Cut. Co. I have no idea what a U.S. Cut. Co. knife looks like.

Collector Knives book shows U.S. CUTLERY CO. Belleville, NJ as c1929.

Hope Iam not barking up the wrong tree.
cheers Gary.

[orvet]

Gary,
That is a different Company.
Goins lists them as "United States Cutlery Co., c. 1917-1930, Belleville, New Jersey at Main & Mill Streets." He goes on to say they dealt mainly knives & forks. I am assuming he is speaking of flat ware as you would use to eat with.

There were several U.S. Cut. Co.s in the last 150 years and there does not seem to be much info on any of them.

[daddyrog]

Still looking and haven't found anything quite like this; must be pretty rare.

[Dragunski]

I can hazard some guesses as to the origin of this knife. It may have something to do with the Stieff Silver Company. This company, famous for its flatware, either bought out or absorbed most of Baltimore's cutlery industry, including S.Kirk & Son, Schofield Silver etc. Relatives of the Stieffs also built the famous Stieff pianos.

My guess is that they owned the mark, and at some point, contracted with Schrade to make these knives for their catalog sales. They probably didn't mark them Stieff as that was a strictly silver company.

Since the stamp is a straight line stamp, it would date the knife between 1917 and 1946, but it's unusual in that it has both stamps. Usually a Schrade contract knife is only stamped with the distributor's name, and not Schrade, or else it is stamped Schrade and merely etched with the distributor's mark. This makes it unusual and rare.

More info on the history of Stieff is here, but I find no mention of U.S. Cutlery Co:

http://thestieffcompany.com/The_Stieff_ ... rview.html