British and Commonwealth Military Knives

[jntroisi]

Just out of curiosity, what are the black scale ones worth. My dad had one and I think it probably got thrown out during thier last move. I'm guessing it was part of a set along with the WWI rifle....which he gave to the Ontario police when we had to register all rifles and shotguns in Canada. He only kept what he thought to be the most valuable guns. F me!

The basic army-issue clasp knife with marline spike and tin opener in the first part of the 1900s was the pattern 6353/1905. It first appeared in 1905 and remained basically the same until the start of WWII. The original spec comprised of stag scales. The first knife in pic 1 is an example made by Hunter Sheffield and marked with the Broad Arrow and I for use by troops in India.

Just before WWI, in 1913, the specs were updated. The scales were changed from stag to chequered horn. The three attachments to be made of the best 'cast steel'. The overall length closed is 4 7/8 inches with the spear blade 3 1/2 inches from kick to point. The shackle made from number 11 guage copper wire. These were the basic GI folder in WWI. Two typical examples seen in pic 1 made by Jos Rodgers & Sons and Frank Mills. Both marked with W arrow D; the War Department mark.



Next are three examples of circa WW1 knives for use by Canadian Forces. The first is the typical British 6353 knife made by Wostenholm, but marked on the spike with the Canadian broad arrow inside a C. The middle knife is the same basic spec made by Thomas Turner & Co but with metal scales. The handle is marked with M & D for Militia and Defense 1915. The last knife in the photo was made for the Canadian forces by Schatt & Morgan of Titusville PA. Beautiful bone scales on the this one and a nail nick on the can opener is different from the Sheffield-made knives.



While not an official issue knife, the jack knives with tin opener and bone scales were included in gift boxes sent to the troops during WWI. This example was made by Wade and Butcher.



Please feel free to add knives, cooments or questions. Thanks for looking. s-k

[jerryd6818]

As usual, I'm a day late and a dollar short. None the less, if these British Military issue knives are anything like the Fairbairn Sykes British Commando knives (and I think it's safe to assume they are) the Broad Arrow mark is the MoD (Ministry of Defense) acceptance mark and the number 4 mentioned earlier was the number assigned to that particular inspector. Rest assured most governments don't purchase anything without sticking that inspection step into the process. Gotta make sure they're not getting screwed by the vendor even though sometimes they get screwed anyway.

Go back near the beginning of this thread, to the picture of those squids sticking knives near their 'sleeping' shipmate. If you have Internet Explorer Ver. 7 or later, zoom on the picture, then increase the magnification of IE to 400%. That is a double blade pocket knife sticking over his right shoulder and there's one of those big chef's knives sticking next to his left ear. Whoa momma!!

[quaydvt]

Lots of great pictures and information, but I am saddened to see that there seems to be no activity here since last December? Is this a dead thread? Or has everyone emigrated somewhere else? A Canadian newbie looking for information

[Miller Bro's]

there seems to be no activity here since last December? Is this a dead thread? Or has everyone emigrated somewhere else? A Canadian newbie looking for information

It`s only dead till someone revives it

What would you like to know?

Post pictures, we like pictures here

[quaydvt]

What would you like to know?

Post pictures, we like pictures here

I know little , so probably anything and everything. Just started looking into the British knives and am overwhelmed by the number of makers and specs even for issued knives (so different than the Swiss - one style of soldier knife per 40 year cycle!

Just have 2 so far, but more on the way I am hoping to find a copy of Flook that won't break the bank (well over $200 on my side of the pond) to help me in my efforts as well. What are the good makers, so-so makers, the great and the not so great. I hate to find myself overspending, although I know that value is often in the eye of the beholder!

Here are my two so far. The WATTS (story goes) was damaged while trying to pry a hot barrel off the gun, and the Thomas Turner is just a great old hunk of heavy wonderful knife (WWI maybe? - not dated but has the acceptance mark)

Thanks for any and all comments, suggestions, information.

BTW - Any other women out there collecting these things???

[Miller Bro's]

A couple of nice old military folders

I would say the T. Turner is WW II vintage.

My knowledge of foreign military folders is lacking, I suspect S-K will be along shortly and can fill you in better than I can

Try looking for Flooks book here: www.knifeworld.com I think they have it for $69.95

You may want to suscribe it has lot`s of info on military folders and fixed blades.

BTW - Any other women out there collecting these things???

I would not doubt it, we have several women collectors here

Dimitri

[quaydvt]

Try looking for Flooks book here: www.knifeworld.com I think they have it for $69.95

Thanks Dimitri - I was actually looking for the British and Commonwealth Military Knives - a monsterous hardcover book, but apparently, pretty much the bible from what I'm told, but that opinion may have been biased. My feeling is if i can get it for $100 it would be a steal! I wasn't sure about the Turner knife. I have seen them discussed as WWI because of the size (this puppy is huge - 5 1/2 inches if you include the shackle and would break your toe if it landed on it!), but if it is WWII, that is also fine. It's a nice knife with very good action.

I got started looking into what might have been issued to Canadian troops - my Dad was a WWII vet - and although none of mine have the broad "C" and arrow (yet!) I still enjoy and appreciate fine old craftsmanship and some of the history these knives carry.

Deb

[Miller Bro's]

Deb,

I don`t have a copy of Flook`s book either

Sounds like a good read and has lot`s of information.

My T. Turner knife posted on page 3 of this thread looks just like your knife

Are these two knives you posted from your dad?

Dimitri

[quaydvt]

No, I wish. My Dad passed several years ago, but he never did have any of his kit. When he left the Air Force it was on medical discharge and he came back to Canada from England and never kept anything that I'm aware of. These are a couple of eBay finds. I saw your Turner - it does look just like this except yours has something stamped on the handle? Does yours have a date stamp anywhere on it?

[Miller Bro's]

I will dig it out and check what is stamped on the handle

[quaydvt]

Thanks - I see jntroisi has a Canadian M&D stamped piece a bit farther up this page (actually middle of page 4). The size and style of mine is what made me figure WWI (the ebay listing also said WWI, but you never know - I tend to go by what I find out elsewhere on many occasions!). I'd pay a bit to get an M&D piece! Not too many Canadian issues pop up. I have my eye on one now and hope to pick it up.

[Miller Bro's]

Here is the mark on my T. Turner knife.

I have never had one marked M&D, I will have to keep an eye out for one

[quaydvt]

The M&D is the Militia and Defense mark used by the Canadian forces in WWI as their acceptance mark. By the time we hit WWII it was changed to the broad "C" encompassing the broad arrow (I have one coming Don't know exactly when the change was made. Nice Knife you have!

[quaydvt]

My collection is small and I am now limiting myself to Canadian issued pieces. Here we are so far.
1914 Thomas Turner marked M & D Canada, alloy grips
George Wostenholm I*XL with no date (pre-WWI?), Broad "C" and arrow, blade has seen some use (grips? Hardened rubber? Don't know how to tell, but they certainly don't have a plastic feel to them)
Bone handle Camillus Cutlery 1915, with broad C & arrow (a bit disappointed when that one arrived - no snap at all to the blade and lots of wobble, but it looks good on the shelf in spite of the wear on the spearpoint blade and the lack of any proper action)
And an M.S. Ltd XX, Case M346 early post war (1948-49 per Flook's book)

Small, but growing.

[Miller Bro's]

Very nice I like them all

I especially like that bone handle Camillus

I need to find one of them myself

[jerryd6818]

Here is the mark on my T. Turner knife.

I have never had one marked M&D, I will have to keep an eye out for one

I just saw a third pattern F-S for sale on eBay with no mold number on the handle but marked with the broad arrow and WD. At the time, I didn't think it was genuine but after seeing your T. Turner, I'm afraid I may have to change my mind. Strange there's no mold number on the handle of the F-S though.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11021.m4 ... AUS%3A1123

[homsimpson]

Dear,
I am from Croatia, and I have, in my collection hunter pocket Sheffield(Brokes&Crookes) knife, which was a gift, given in 1908., to one of my ancestor.
I am ready to offer this knife to collectors, so i am asking you, are you interested in buying this knife, which price can you offer?
If you are interested?

[homsimpson]

Dear,
I am from Croatia, and I have, in my collection hunter pocket Sheffield(Brokes&Crookes) knife, which was a gift, given in 1908., to one of my ancestor.
I am ready to offer this knife to collectors, so i am asking you, are you interested in buying this knife, which price can you offer?
If you are interested?

Something New

[DavidBatista]

to smiling knife:

is that a vintage? how do got that knife?

[zed6309]

I carried a grey scaled knife like these in my tool box for years, it had german markings on it, wish i still had it but its long gone now nice pics guys

paul

[jerryd6818]

I'm digging up this old thread because I made an impulse purchase on eBay this morning and I'm pretty sure it's not a "Vary Heavy Duty Nurseryman Pocket Knife" as it was listed.
I'm too impatient to wait until I get the knife in hand and see the marks so I'm curious what y'all can glean from the one picture that was in the listing.

British Army Knife w/service number painted on the handle and... ??

After spending a good bit of time on BritishBlades this morning, what seems to set it apart from some of the early or even pre-WWII knives is the extended fuller coming off the gullet of the can opener or "tin blade" as they call it. Comments?

I'll post more pictures and the marks later in the week when it shows up in my mailbox.

[Iron Hoarder]

the old style can opener dates that one to 1945 or earlier.It looks like that one is stamped 1944.

[jerryd6818]

Thanks Robert. I've wanted one of these for quite some time and now I'll be doin' the pee pee dance until it gets here.

[Miller Bro's]

Jerry,

What ever happened with this knife?

[Alex K.]

M346; W.R. Case & Son made this pattern knife for Canada during WWII ....According to Mr. Flook's book : "The World War Two period US Navy knives were made by W.R. Case...between 1940 and 1942 and bore the mark CASE XX on the blade. The knives made by Case during the war for the Canadians carried the CASE XX METAL STAMPINGS LTD mark...The early POST-WAR Canadian made knives were produced between 1948 and 1949 by the Case subsidiary W.R. Case and Sons of Canada Ltd, Pictou, Nova Scotia. These knives bear the M.S. LTD XX mark."

Closed Length: 4 7/8 inches

1) Sheepfoot: 3 3/4 inches
2) Marlin Spike 4 inches
3) Punch Blade 1 5/8 inches
______
Alex