should there be consequences?

[johnnierotten]

If you have been scammed by a fellow member.....should there be consequences?
Pretty much what I'm saying is if the Person ripped you off by not holding up His / Her end of the deal ...be it money ,knife or knives, services....or some other item....Should He or She be booted from the site?

To me...there is only 2 excuses......either your DEAD.....or your DYING!!

I am in the Hospital 5-6 times a year..for 2 to 4 weeks at a time.....and I still conduct business in a timely manner.

Let me know how you feel..

[MITCH RAPP]

Since this group of members here, is almost a Club of sorts, I think everybody kind of trusts the people here to honor their commitments in a timely manner! If they don't, for what ever lame reason they give or if there just plain outright CROOKS, THEY NEED TO BE GONE, LIKE YESTERDAY!

[robinetn]

I think that giving them the "boot" is not extreme enough ! Mitch's avatar represents a better measure !

Bob

[gino]

I say if they have been given every chance to make the deal square and have not, then they should be gone!

[johnnierotten]

But what length of time is fair?.......if you can't hold up your end....don't make it!! .....as most of us know...there is a member who has been screwed for over a YEAR!!
and as far as I know...is still waiting!!

[bamafan]

Here's a suggestion. On another site that I frequent, they have a sub-forum for feedback for members that you deal with on that site. You can leave negative or positive feedback for transactions that you have with that member. Gives other folks an idea about folks, & if they want to deal with that person or not. Just like Ebay feedback system I suppose. Cuz I know ifn they screwed one guy, it's in their blood to try & do it again.

I'm sure one bad feedback for any member, & they would get their own self booted.

As far as booting people, all ya gotta do is sign up under another user name, and your back incognito.

How about a sub-forum here for such transactions? Just a suggestion.

[johnnierotten]

As far as booting people, all ya gotta do is sign up under another user name, and your back incognito.

This is true.....I know of 2 members who have done so. ....I'm not for sure but I believe that Bryan or whoever can block the IP address. ..that would make it a little harder.

[bamafan]

As far as booting people, all ya gotta do is sign up under another user name, and your back incognito.

This is true.....I know of 2 members who have done so. ....I'm not for sure but I believe that Bryan or whoever can block the IP address. ..that would make it a little harder.

I'm sure Bryan can block IP addresses, but I think all they gotta do is sign up a new account from their ISP, & the addy changes.

[johnnierotten]

Chris....I'm sure your right...I'm not that savvy with windows pc's.....but I bet there's a way.
I figured one dude out just by the way He writes and responds to messages.... ...sure did!!

[vikingdog]

Here's a suggestion. On another site that I frequent, they have a sub-forum for feedback for members that you deal with on that site. You can leave negative or positive feedback for transactions that you have with that member. Gives other folks an idea about folks, & if they want to deal with that person or not. Just like Ebay feedback system I suppose. Cuz I know ifn they screwed one guy, it's in their blood to try & do it again.

I'm sure one bad feedback for any member, & they would get their own self booted.

As far as booting people, all ya gotta do is sign up under another user name, and your back incognito.

How about a sub-forum here for such transactions? Just a suggestion.

Unfortunately, this topic has come up several times before. I'd like to see something like this too. I used to be a member of a cigar site and they had a traders rating section.

[johnnierotten]

Mike....I agree with you and Chris. .....it really burns me when THIEVES rob a person and know all they have to do is give a sob story and everything will be forgiven.

[ringergary]

I agree,, there should be a sub-forum where they can be named &shamed.




cheers Gary

[tjmurphy]

Yep, there's no excuse for not contacting a buyer/seller about shipping/paying problems. Just really poor ethics.

[Owd Wullie]

Well, they might be able to sign up with a new username, but I'm bettin' that if they're scammin, the locale of their operation will stay the same. Most likely the name will stay the same as well.

Post ALL the details ( name, address, ph number, forum user name, ebay user name, etc etc) in the feed back section and give 'em the boot from the forum.

[johnnierotten]

AMEN!!!....

[IMBand]

I have been waiting for a few months now for a member to ship $380 worth of knives
to me that I purchased from him. I also sent 5 knives to be worked on and over $200
for the work. When things seemed fine in the beginning, I also gifted him many sets
of antlers and a sack of parts knives. The guy made some lame excuses and finally
stopped responding. Very few members know who he is, but HE DOES. I have
refrained from any type of public statement on this, but this thread begs for it. If
the site ends up making a decision on this issue, I will follow the rules on rating this
person.

[orvet]

As far as booting people, all ya gotta do is sign up under another user name, and your back incognito.

This is true.....I know of 2 members who have done so. ....I'm not for sure but I believe that Bryan or whoever can block the IP address. ..that would make it a little harder.

Johnnie,
Bryan & I are administrators the on AAPK. I think we are the only ones at present. We can block an IP address as well as a user name. If someone gets a new ISP (internet service provider) his IP address will change and the new address would not be blocked. They can also pay to have the address changed I believe with some ISPs.

So, blocking is not 100% but it should make the process too expensive for the casual rip-off. A pro will find a way around it.

I agree,, there should be a sub-forum where they can be named &shamed.
cheers Gary

I think this might be one viable option, subject to Bryan’s approval, or have a Report-A-Ripoff link. (see below)

Well, they might be able to sign up with a new username, but I'm bettin' that if they're scammin, the locale of their operation will stay the same. Most likely the name will stay the same as well.

Post ALL the details ( name, address, ph number, forum user name, ebay user name, etc etc) in the feed back section and give 'em the boot from the forum.

Posting all this information will likely carry nasty legal ramifications for AAPK as well as for the person posting the info. Anything beyond the forum name could be a problem.

Anything like this would be subject to Bryan’s approval.

Since I sell knives in my AAPK store and buy, sell & trade with other AAPK members I am concerned if members are being ripped off. It is understandable when a knife I order is not quite a good as I expected…happens to me all the time on ebay.
But when someone has taken advantage on several AAPK members I think we need to take some action.


How about this for an idea, a Report-A-Ripoff link:
We set up a link where members can report bad transactions with other AAPK members. They can do so without making the person’s name public. When someone has concerns about a person they can inquire if there has been any complaints about that person. You can be informed via PM or email if there have been any problems reported with that person.
This way no one’s reputation is tarnished unnecessarily and when we get too many legitimate complaints the person can be banned.

How does that sound, or some variation of that?


If we do a bit of brainstorming perhaps we can come up with a way to handle the offenders without making a huge issue but still protect our members.

Let me know what you think.

[wazu013]

I think if they gave you an outright screwin' then they should be set a sail only after everybody had a chancee to PM them with their thoughts. To take it further I would like to know their Ebay site or the like so I don't get it from them there as well.
wazu013

[ringergary]

or a site where you can complain about getting ripped off or a bad deal, and an administrator can then whisper
in the baddies ear and have him/her fix the problem. If no action is forthcoming then remove them from
the forum.


cheers Gary

[bamafan]

How about this for an idea, a Report-A-Ripoff link:
We set up a link where members can report bad transactions with other AAPK members. They can do so without making the person’s name public. When someone has concerns about a person they can inquire if there has been any complaints about that person. .

How does that sound, or some variation of that?



Let me know what you think.

Problem I see with that is when are you going to have conerns about people on here? A few of these guys that have ripped peolple off, I wouldn't have known unless it had been brought up, because I've dealt with these same guys in the past. So, how many guys can they rip off before they are brought in the light?

I can understand the ramifications that could be brougth to AAPK if you post all the info of a paticular person, but would there be a problem wiht a sub-forum for feedback on folks? " A+ for Josh Smith" Or " Beware of Joe Blow" I've seen this same setup on another forum that I frequent. And it's a rather large forum BTW, 75K + members.

[IMBand]

It does not make sense that an Administrator would want to protect the
scammers. Dale has given more than one reason why the scammer should
be protected and has not really suggested a solution that protects the
honest members. He is friends with the person that stole from me, they
post back and forth all the time, not surprised he does not want names
mentioned. PM me and I will tell you the guys name that stole from me.
I can see by Dales post that no real resolution is on the horizon.
As far as banning a member, when his friend failed to complete my
transaction on the knives, Dale banned me for saying the f-word once.
I believed he was protecting his friend at the time, his post only
confirms it in my mind.

I may not be back under this user name, but I WILL BE BACK !!

[Cowboy7130]

I don't think what he wrote is meant to "protect" the alleged scammer, or the alleged thief, or whatever you want to call the "bad guy." I think what he said was that there are some legal ramifications that would prevent this site from posting information about ta person in a public forum. Whether we agree with the law or not, the admins have to adhere to it, I am sure.

Another thought: While I would hate to have negative feedback assigned to my real name and address, as proposed by some members here, I would equally hate to have positive feedback assigned to my real name and address. Can you imagine the flood of unsolicited offers of commerce that would follow such a rating?

Just my two cents' worth ... and probably not worth THAT much ....

[IMBand]

Well said cowboy, but if Dale was not protecting the person who has my money and knives, maybe
he can ask Bryan to make my emails from that account available to me. That way I can work
with law enforcement to try and recover my losses and prosecute the thief (alledged thief).
So far, for saying the f-word about Osama Bin Laden - all that info is lost to me and Bryan
and Dale have not offered any help in retrieving it. The scammer did communicate with me a
couple times under this user ID, but the money stuff was on the other account. I will more
than likely have to fly to his city and try to take a sheriff with me to his door, or just
walk away from the $$ and knives, BUT THAT AINT HAPPENING - I will not stop recovery efforts.

I guess I should take this as an opportunity to formally request my emails from that account.
So, what do ya say Dale and Bryan - can I have my evidence against the other member or not?
Just PM me to make those arrangements please. I will still gladly follow whatever 'rating'
system thats put in place. The decision on public admonishment is Bryans, that is why none
of you have heard about this person taking my stuff.................even though I was scammed,
I believe in 100% fairness, you can ask any member that has dealt with me, they will tell
you they were treated more than fair.

[vieu101]

well saiid IM........I know this members name and he aint nuthin but a coward and a thief for not making it right. I hope he makes it right but the punk he is probably not

[Jimbo]

I with IM.....

I've dealt with IM and he has been more than fair to me..