Meerschaum Bone 8OT ?

[ozzie marie]

I purchased this knife not knowing exactly its age or condition. I am sure that the knife is original but there are a few things diffrent from other Schrade Walden 8OT's I've seen.

The blades are polished and the handles are not Bone or Delrin, they are more like smooth Celluloid. Could this handle material be what Schrade called their Meerschaum Bone?

Opinions please

Keith

[TripleF]

The bottom picture looks like a horrible fit....If so, I can't imagine anything like that coming from the Schrade Factory.

BUT, I'm a rookie at this.

[gino]

I cant tell if the handle came loose or what but man thats a bad lookin fit.

[tjmurphy]

Got to be an optional dillusion

[Chief RID]

They both look like Delrin to me.

[ozzie marie]

Gents,

I posted that photo to show the shrinkage of the handle material. That is why I think it is some sort of Celluloid which I've never seen on a 8OT. All the knives I've seen with Delrin were Sawcut and these handles are smooth. I believe its a 45+ year old knife and I'm sure it didn't leave the factory that way.

Keith

[ea42]

Dave, it wasn't cell as far as I know. They experimented with a bunch of different materials at first before they settled on delrin. There was a swirled mahogany plastic that shrunk like crazy (as did several others), they even tried masonite, although I'm not sure if that made it into production (I'm fairly certain the only examples were housed in Dave Swinden's desk drawer for many years). By the time these knives were made they had torched most of their cell stock, and burnt a good portion of an old oak tree in the process!
They had initially referred to the bone handled models as meershaum, and just kept it up for a time through the newer handle materials.

Eric

[orvet]

Keith, I am as puzzled as everyone else.
I have not seen anything like it.

I have an email into LT.
Hopefully he will know what it is.

[tongueriver]

Another fellow in Texas and I both have examples. Ours have some shrinkage, but not this bad. Also, the "plastic" is infused with an almost microscopic gold dust. Like glitter, but much much smaller. Folks that don't have close-up vision probably can't see it. I am curious if Ozzie's also has the gold dust embedded in the material.

[lt632ret]

In 1959 Schrade began to issue the Old Timer line. These were handled in Sawcut delrin. However there were two models issued in genuine smooth bone the 2 OT and the first issue 8 OT. Years later Late 60ty or 70 tys ( I do not feel like looking it up ). There was a second reissue of the 8 OT in genuine smoothbone . These knives first and second issue were virtually the same however the reissue came in the same box as yours. This is an unusual circumstance in knife collecting in that in this case really the discerning factor in original or reissue is the box unlike most cases where the collector wants a pristene example in the original box in this circumstance this denotes a later reissue not that it really matters except to the collector who wants the older one.( again they are virtually the same ) Lets look at your knife first of all ( being an old fart it is difficult to see in your pic ) but I believe it is tang marked Schrade Walden ( That is correct ). It is an OT with smooth sides ( that is correct ). It has the deluxe polished blades and the match strike nail niche ( that is correct ). The handles have shrunk this is not unheard of in bone or that unusual over the years, of course it is much more prevelent in cell however by the time these were produced Schrade had stopped using cell and had substituted delrin in various forms K Horn to replace cell, wonder wood, sawcut, ect . Schrade after the move from Walden replaced all its natural handle materials with synthetic except for special issues like the 8 OT. You should never be surprised what may turn up when dealing with Schrade especially if you ever had a chance to go into there R&D room (research and development ). In fact just to confuse things originally when preparing to start the OT line in the mid 50tys. All of the first prototypes for the later OT delrin models were made in bone the reason being that in the mid fiftys it was easier if just making one or two to see if you want to produce them to make them individually in bone. Rather than make molds ect. I have a couple of those proto sawcut bone protos. So like I said anything is possible with Schrade. I believe your knife is the reissue in smoothbone these are really sought after but most people do not realize what they are. All this being said I do not have the knife in hand and I do not know what the sparkle factor is that the gentleman mentioned. This is my opinion from the info I have. It really is a nice example and if you decide to sell let me know the bone versions are rare . Getting it in the box and obviously having sat some where all these years is a rare treat. Regards LT

[ozzie marie]

Gents,

Thank You! for all of the GREAT information and your opinions

I put the knife under a microscope and this is what I found:

The handle material has a definite grain to it especially on the edges and ends. This can also be seen on the smooth surfaces.

The gold sparkle is there under magnification if you hold it to the light just right. This to me looks like some type of finnish on the handle material.

I compared it to my 2OT and the grain is identical.

Because the knife came from an estate of its original owner, in its original box with paperwork stating genuine bone handles, LT's opinion that this is a reissue of the first 8OT's makes a lot of cence to me.

Keith

[thawk]

This handle material has been presented and discussed several times over in BladeForums. Never a definitive answer, but they all have the gold dust and badly shrunken handles. I've seen them on Ebay a few times too, and only on 8OT knives, and always with the matchstrike nail nick.

I know there were the smooth red bone examples with serial numbers (1985) and came in a set of 8OT, 34OT, and 108OT, but they were not Schrade Walden stamped, did not have matchstrike nicks on the 8OT, and had a different shield. This example is in a cardboard box isn't it Keith, not a wooden box.

[ozzie marie]

Hal,

The box is paper coverd wood, not cardboard.

Keith

[thawk]

I've wondered about those boxes. I've seen that style with regular Delrin Old Timer 8OT's too.

[ea42]

I honestly don't think that's bone. Some kind of plastic maybe but no idea what. I've never seen bone shrink like that, especially the way the handle has pulled the cover pin through the hole, and stretched the hole a bit to boot. Bone doesn't give like that, it just cracks.



Eric

[lt632ret]

It is really quite simple to determine if the handles are bone or plastic. Simply do a pin test. I am sure most of you know what that is but if not simply take a regular straight pin hold it in a pair of needle nose pliers or similar, vise grips work well heat the tip of the pin then apply the point to the back of the knife on the handle material. if the material melts and smells like plastic guess what . That is what it is. If the material is tougher and does not go in as easy ( does not melt in ) and than smells like hair burning then it is bone. If done correctly it should not really hurt the knife.

There is no sense in debating what it is long distance, I have seen bone contort especially with the dye which was used for this issue which was the same as used on the delrin handles and produced between the heated dip and its propertys some strange effects especially in the decades which have passed since these were made. Also storage in a closed place enhances this effect. The box apparently states bone and it does appear to be the original knife. All this being said it is what it is and if you want to be sure just do the test. It is sometimes difficult to tell the bone ones from the delrin even when you have them in front of you. However the bone ones are always smooth not sawcut.

[Bob W.]

I don't have one of these, but from the photo it sure looks like shrinkage rather than a poorly fitted handle. You can even see how the shrinking material is pulling the pin.

Some sort of early plastic, IMO. I've seen bone shrink, but not like that.