arizona does it again...

[tjmurphy]

Mistaken identity!! But I'll take those mistakes anytime

[tjmurphy]

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( Post edited to remove inappropriate content)

[gringo]

I've stirred a pot or two in my day also, used a canoe paddle, but I've mellowed out now

If you mellowed out then why all the bombs hitting your house



The border agents have a job to do,the were doing their job.............

at least it is clear racists are inflamed by any fact.

[knife7knut]

Hey guys;Rodney King is no longer with us so let's take a little of his advice and,"can't we ALL just get along?" I'll shut up now.

[gringo]

ok, the correct answer is:
it was ok to detain a man of the correct decade, hispanic, and name, in hopes the president of cuba had decieded to visit nogalas, arizona...with nuclear material.

but. detaining a 96 year old man, regardless, in the plus 100 degree heat in a tent...is equal to water boarding the man.

fan? my glow in the dark bottom...
this attitude shows a complete lack of understanding of the climate conditions that rule the southwest.

raise a tent? with walls...the material heats in the sun, the materials holding the tent up, heat in the sun...the fan in the tent heats up an retains that heat...
that yellow thing up in the sky? thats the sun...
here, any material one places in the sun becomes a heat sink, becoming hotter that the space outside the tent
anyveteran of the last ten years will attest to that...
placing a 96 year old in front of a fan, in this tent, is only speeding his dehydration...this was not airconditioning...a fan...insane.
no buts about it...any of you who feel different, i have a tent, and a fan, and will place any one{who signs a release} into said hotspot...at the same time of day, altitude...

what did mark twain say..." a person who picks a cat up by the tail will learn something that he could not learn any other way..."

for those who love to correct an taunt at my spellin, i have five letters after my name...earned em too...an i am dsylexic...if i spelled it correctly.

sure is odd how you fellas run around like headless chicken when ya have to use that grey matter....really.
i wasnt stiring...but now...just hand me the jp4 an a barrel...i got a stick.

[coffeecup]

The "correct answer" is to identify any suspected source of radiation. If that means detaining someone until the suspected source of radiation is identified, then so be it. The argument could be made that everyone connected with the suspected source should be detained until it can proven that it came from a medical source--but instead the Border Patrol seems to be using some common sense and detaining the source until it seems reasonably likely that the source is not a cause of concern. The only reason to claim he was detained because he shares a name of, and has some vague resemblance to, the president of Cuba, is to draw attention from the fact that the vehicle was stopped due to detection of radiation.

As for having "a complete lack of understanding of the climate conditions that rule the southwest," while I'm certainly not an expert I've worked a few digs in that part of the country, and spent some time bouncing around the Altar desert. Normal procedure seemed to be to seek shade when it got too hot (imagine that), and to set up an improvised awning (some folks might describe it as a "tent") if no other shade was available. The best places to set one up were often near terrain features where a slight breeze might be generated by the temperature differentials. The digs I've worked typically had an awning raised over the excavation for shade, and when possible a fan was set up to draw air through.

But we've all got "a complete lack of understanding of the climate conditions that rule the southwest," next time we'll have to get a real expert to show us what to do.

With a bit of digging around, I was able to find pictures of the "tents" the Border Patrol seems to be using at stops like the one where Mr. Castro was detained: tops raised fairly high (to improve air flow--some even have vents), no sides. Us folks ignorant "of the climate conditions that rule the southwest" would probably call that an awning. Or a sunshade.

I won't address the statement that he was put in front of a fan as none of the various re-tellings of the tale seem to claim that.

[gringo]

again, one appears to have no conception of climate or conditions in the destert.
primitive mining methods that left TON of radioactive material lying about arizona and new mexico seem to be beyond your ability to visualize.
tailings ponds used in this primitive extraction method irradiated entire communities, when they broke or over ran their banks.
even worse...the mining tailings...were used to construct roads, buildings, sidewalks...ect...and not one government official, not one mining official, not one...ever, detailed to the communities that this dirt was a danger to health of anyone...
in fact, the most people heard, oh, no...we took the dangerous stuff away...

so, if you or anyone drives through navajo country, the petrified forest, or certian parts of new mexico....you might find a place on the irradiated spectrum yourself.

[vieu101]

cofeecup had to use your line cause it does fit
Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead. -T. Paine

[coffeecup]

In order to detect something (such as elevated radiation levels possibly indicative of an attempt to smuggle radioactive materials), a threshold has to be selected. The threshold has to be above background levels no matter what the local background levels are, otherwise your survey device/instrument will constantly indicate the presence of, in this case, elevated radiation levels. If the detection attempt is being made in an area with a higher-than-usual level of background radiation, the survey instrument has to be set higher. One approach to this is to set the survey instrument to some minimum level well above the background level, but below the expected threat level.

When this is done, things like proximity to mine tailings, old settling ponds, radioactive pavement, underlying granite with uranium ore, UFO crashes, Area 51, or even just the natural background radiation due to radioactive minerals, cosmic rays, etc, are already taken into account before the survey begins. They can not do a survey or attempt to detect abnormal radiation sources/elevated radiation levels without doing so. A survey or attempt to detect abnormal radiation sources/elevated radiation levels will not work if they do not do so.

No one has suggested that the survey device being used by the Border Patrol was not functioning, so apparently it was set above the background level (at a guess, at least 2x background level to avoid false alerts but I don't know what protocols they were using--quite possibly higher). In any event, the survey instrument would have been set high enough to not give false alerts on environmental contamination of vehicles. The survey instrument indicated elevated levels of radiation coming from the car. The indications of elevated radiation were apparently explained to everyone's satisfaction as being due to Gov. Castro's recent medical treatment. At a guess, Gov. Castro had undergone medical imaging studies (while there are other possible medical explanations for the radiation, that is most likely); his body was probably emitting radiation at a level of many times that of the background radiation level.

[gringo]

yawn
http://www.azrra.gov/
http://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/? ... ion-levels
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/
http://yosemite.epa.gov/r9/sfund/r9sfdo ... enDocument
http://arizona.sierraclub.org/conservat ... canyon.asp

an the kicker...duh...the copper state. http://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm/copper.html


like a dog wuffin in the wind...you just do not understand the southwest or mining tec.

now the end of that black pile of slag ends in the verde river...

[coffeecup]

I checked the links you posted. None of them have any indication that environmental radiation is at the level used for medical imaging studies. None of them suggest any explanation for an environmental source for a concentration of radioactive material equivalent to that of recent medical imaging studies. They have nothing to do with the level of radiation that resulted in the vehicle in which Gov. Castro was a passenger being stopped. In other words, you've just supported my point . . .

It would be simple to support your latest position: all you'd have to do is show that high levels of radiation are being detected on multiple vehicles, and that when searched it is determined that the radiation detected is due to environmental contamination. Is that happening?

[gringo]

http://www.downwinders.info/

...prove you were irraidated site...

duh.

[gringo]

http://www.justice.gov/civil/common/reca.html

[philco]

I have patiently monitored this thead with the hope that a meaningful and RESPECTFUL discussion of this issue could take place. It's clear to me at this point that is not going to happen.

This thread is locked.

Phil